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Bench seat work, foam, seat covers & power seat mechanical clean up

Started by chrisntam, March 30, 2015, 10:47:37 PM

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chrisntam

I think (ok, I know) the seats of my '70 deville need help.  When I sit on them, I sink way down, like there is no foam or the springs aren't doing their job.  Mostly its the front seat, but the back seat too.  Yesterday, I removed the rear seat cover on the seat bottom, the undercarriage of the seat is a bit rusty, but nothing I wouldn't expect on an old convertible.   I didn't see any loose or broken springs.  The seat foam is there, it appears to be compressed. In  the past and on other cars (20+ years ago), I have just got new foam and put it over the existing foam and have been fine.  I'm concerned the problem may be more than just the foam.  My questions are:

1) When should the seat springs be replaced?  Do they wear out?  Can an upholstery shop replace the springs?

2) Is the sagging (when seated) just seat foam related?  Should I use a special foam or just use "seat foam" from the local Hancocks fabric store? 

3) How can I tell if it's springs or foam?  How do I diagnose bad seat springs?

I guess I can install the foam I bought (I'm a little worried it's not dense enough) and give it a try.

Any advice from those who do seat work?
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Steve Passmore

Depends how rusty the coils are, they are spring steel and rust is the worst killer of spring metal, it takes the spring out of it. My guess is its a combination of springs and foam. No foam lasts forever and will eventually compress.  The most comfortable seats have the weakest springs and foam so they would deteriorate faster.   
Coil spring seats are complicated, they are designed with different size and strength springs in different places to keep people in one position. Easy enough to replace one or two but building a complete new spring base is a little more involved as each size and strength coils are usually sold in bundles of 50, not many trim shops would stock them all and anywhere that builds household furniture does so usually with all one size or zigzag type springs.

If a seat foam kit is not available for your car I would replace it with top quality seating foam, this usually comes in a different colour than the standard.  If your car has what we call here 'Dulopillow'  or 'Latex Cushions'   because its made with rubber you will be hard pressed to copy it. This stuff was molded specifically for each seat, is very supportive and has holes running through it unlike the foam you buy for home use. It is available but usally just in slabs.  Good luck.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

The Tassie Devil(le)

I had to do some major renovating of the seat foam in a '69 SVD I worked on.   The foam was crumbling on the underneath.

I removed a 1" layer of foam, and replaced it with foam sheeting, and worked a treat.

Deft work with the 4" angle grinder with a sanding attachment made light work of the removal, and contact cement held the replacement into place.

Even the hessian with stiffening wires had to be replaced.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Scot Minesinger

Also, sometime the springs break.  Here is a picture of a repair on back seat spring of a 1967 Cadillac.  A section of 5/16" steel stock is bent to match the line of the spring and clamped with steel cable clamps.  This is unconventional, but it does the trick.  This repair was especially a nice improvement because it was at the mounting point and the seat was very uncomfortable until this was done.

If you want to replace the springs, used is likely your only option and buying seats from SW and other non-rust areas of the Country is your likely best bet.  Obviously freight will be expensive.  Several years used same seats too.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Steve Passmore

That confirms you have Latex as I remember my 59 had it so defiantly by 1970 as I see it there in Bruces pictures.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Walter Youshock

I had to replace the foam in the front seat of the '57.   Everything under the cloth sections was dry rotted.   Everything under the leather was still good.

I went to Joann fabric and got 4" heavy density foam rubber and a roll of quilt batting to go on top of it.  I cut the foam as close to the original as possible and pulled the upholstery back over and replaced the bull nose clips.   It's held up very well since.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

The older I get, the lower I seem to sink into the seat.  Actually, I can't put the wheel down as far either.  Come to think of it, I have to telescope the wheel in further too.  I wonder why........... By the way, these old Caddy's are hard to get thru some drive thru's ;D ;D
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

chrisntam

I took the back seat bottom to an upholstery shop for some advice.  He freely gave it to me, was a little surprised, offered to buy his lunch (for the advice) he declined.

He said the springs were fine, just the foam had compressed.  He said ok to lay new foam over existing, but if the new foam is too thick, I'd have difficultly getting the seat cover back on.  I'm going to try a firm one inch piece and a soft one inch piece.  We'll see.  I snuck the wife's turkey carving knife over to the shop, will start "trimming" on Saturday.

Jeff, I agree on the size of these cars.  Barely fits in the garage.  Forget about using a floor jack in the front when it's in the garage.  Tell me again why we needed cars this big????
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

My problem is that my belly gets in the way.  Why did we need cars so big?? To get the girls, of course. It didn't work tho....... Why do I have a car so big now?? Because now I have a wife and need a hobby!!
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

Raymond919

Chris, just a quick thought about something I read once. It said you can easily and cleanly trim and cut foam using an electric knife. I've never done it myself, just passing along the tip.
Ray Schuman
#26141

Smelvis

Hey Chris,

I did the seats  last winter. I was also lucky and had a local upholsterer guide me through and even sell me a few springs and hog rings etc.

He recommended same thing but he also recommended checking all spring clamps, running wire across the coils to help springs to move together and covering with burlap before putting old foam back on.

I found 1 inch foam was max I could swing with getting covers back on. Also I didn't have to trim very accurately because the original foam held the shape where needed. It was more of a fill and lift for me.

The results were night and day. Glad I did it. I can email ha more pics. I don't know how to shrink em.


Smelvis

A few more. A little out of order.

chrisntam

Hey Jared,  Thanks for the insight.  I like the idea of tying the springs together.  What type of wire/size?  Can you explain a little more about this?

Ray, already have the carving knife on the ready!!
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Smelvis

Chris, he explained that there was some type of fabric or subsurface beneath the foam that would help distribute the weight evenly and thus compressing the spring not just under your but, but spread to others as well. Also as the underside of the foam has taken the shape of the springs you lose volume by it just sinking into the springs, hence the burlap (I keep saying that but I'm pretty sure I used canvas of some kind) to assist as a barrier as well.

He recommended taking a braided wire or thin cable and running acros the springs the long way about 1/3 of the way from the front and back. Secure it at each end, wrap once around each spring you pass, make it snug but not tight and secure it here and there with something that will allow it to move if needed.

I used some med/heavy picture hanging wire and rebar ties to secure the wire intermittenly. I just make several knots at each end to tie off and many rebar ties. My grandfather was in the concrete business for a bit so rebar ties were his duct tape haha. You can see the wire in the first pic I posted.

Good luck with the seats. I started out trying to perk them up a bit but ended up going all the way with some crack and scratch repair and repainting them. Worth it but some repairs didn't take. They still look great though!

walt chomosh #23510

Chris,
  Every city has a automotive upholstery supplier that sells everything one needs to repair seat springs and upholstery. From fabrics to burlap,cotton and foam(popular muscle car foam is already formed)everything is generally stocked. I also use a carving knife to cut foam. Check your local supplier out....walt...tulsa,ok

chrisntam

Got the seat part of the back seat done, it's better, but not as good as I'd like it.  I may pull it back apart and try again.  That one is easy.

I moved on to the front seat and wow, it's a lot of work to get that thing apart.  That foam is crumbling in places, prolly should replace that foam.  I found bench seat foam for '61 to '70 Impala.  What do you think?  Worth a try?  Is the bench portion the same size (Chevrolet vs. Cadillac)?

I'd also like to clean up and re-grease the seat mechanism.  Any pointers?  The seat works fine, just figured I'd address it at this point.
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas