1960 Sedan DeVille intake cracked and sticking lifter

[Tahoelover2002]

Hey guys,

It seems my Cadillac has a lifter that is sticking on the driver side bank, furthest back from the front. I have tried running some transmission fluid through the oil, which helped a little, but didn’t solve the problem completely. I have decided to take off the heads and change out all the lifters, pushrods, rocker ect…  Does anyone know of any decent aftermarket brand that sell well made engine equipment such as the items I listed? A friend has already suggested Crane/Crain as well as Comp. I am not familiar with either of these brand and wanted to see if anyone who may have taken down their engine, what brand they used/recommended.

Also besides the sticking lifter, I noticed that the intake manifold has a small crack in it about the size of maybe a nickel. I wanted to see first if this can be fixed or do I need to get a new intake? Second, if it can be repaired, does anyone know of any places that can make this repair and how should they be making the repair if they are doing it the right way? Third, if it cannot be repair what is a decent brand to look at as far as intakes? And finally a friend recommended that I use JB Weld since the hoe was so small…..if this a good thing to try? Or is welding the better option?

Thanks for any help given!

[76eldo]

James,

Where is the manifold cracked?  If it's in between the holes that bolt it down, that's common.

Brian

[60eldo]

  You might want to change your oil and add 1 bottle of ZDDP. I had a similar problem and it was solved in 45 seconds,,,,just a thoght

[35-709]

That lifter noise could well be an exhaust leak due to a crack in the exhaust manifold or a leak at the exhaust port or the heat riser passage port in the center of the intake.  Have you checked your heat riser valve?  Very important that this valve be one of three things ---
1.  Able to open and close freely --- closed when the engine is cold and opening to fully open as the engine warms.
2.  Wired or otherwise blocked open so that it is open all the time.
3.  Removed completely (2 or 3 would be my recommendation).
A heat riser valve, stuck closed, in time, can and will cause intake manifold cracks and leaks at the center port and damage your carburetor.

[Ken Perry]

I would not run new lifters on a old cam!!! Bad combo,good chance of wipping out the cam. Have you checked for rocker arm wear ? I have a good used intake for sale. All the info on exhaust leaks and heat riser is very true,don't over look these areas. Ken Perry

[Scot Minesinger]

Geoff bet me to it - check that heat riser and make sure it is open - that sticking closed causes intake manifold cracks.

Yes, and what Ken said, new lifters on an old cam is not good

[Tahoelover2002]

Brian, yes the manifold is cracking at the four bolt holes.
60eldo, what is ZDDP? Is that some short of additive?
35-709, I do have small exhaust leaks on both rear banks of the motor. However I am unfamiliar with this Heat Riser Valve. My father knows about them, so he is going to take a look with me and let me know if my is stuck closed or not. I have not checked that nor did I know what it was, so I have no clue if it is suck closed or already been wired open/removed.
Ken Perry, after thinking it over and talking with my Dad we agree new equipment on the old cam would be bad. Also how much are you selling this intake for? Is it from a 1960? If you could, please send me an email directly so that we cam discus this if you are willing to sell it.

I will post some pictures of the cranks in a moment. Thank you all for you help so far!

[Tahoelover2002]

Here are the pictures of the cracked manifold. Let me know what your opinions are.

[35-709]

The broken out places where the hold down bolts are, as Brian said, common and not a particular worry.

The heat riser valve requires maintenance from time to time and should be checked for ease of operation at every oil change if still installed in the car.  If it is still working (and from the looks of the intake around the choke stove I would doubt it), or could be freed up and made to work, some have had good luck lubricating the shaft with dry graphite such as used to free up door locks. 

Your unfamiliarity with heat riser valves parallels many others and is why I mention them often and also view them with disdain because of the damage they can do when they are unknown and/or ignored.  If you are not concerned about strict authenticity get rid of the thing or at least block it/wire it open.  They are there to help the engine warm up quicker and improve drive-ability when the engine is still cold.  Without them a few extra minutes warm up time before starting out serves the same purpose.  I would not have one whether I lived in Canada or Florida.

An exhaust leak from a cracked exhaust manifold or from a leak where the manifold mates up to the exhaust port can sound just like a clacking lifter.  Does the noise tend to quiet down after the engine has warmed?  If so, good reason to check for exhaust leaks before digging into the engine, but I would start there first anyway. 

[Roger Zimmermann]

If you look at the 3. picture, you can see a tube coming out from the intake manifold. This tube is for the choke. Behind that tube which is just inserted into the manifold, there is another tube crossing that manifold and heated by the exhaust gases. At 99.9% chances is that tube broken.
To be sure, take the cover out from the choke coil: it will be full of soot because instead of hot air, the carb is sucking exhaust gases.

[Tahoelover2002]

35-709, yes the noise does get quieter when the car idles down and has warmed up. As I stated before, I know I have 2 small exhaust leaks at the far rear of both banks. I believe I am going to need a new exhaust manifold as well. Could you please give me an explanation of where this heat riser valve is and what I should look for if it broken? Any tell tail signs? Thank you

Rogger, so if I remove this tube that can be seen in the picture there is another tube that goes from one side of the manifold to the other (as in passenger side over to drive side) but it is inside the manifold itself? Does this have anything to do with the heat riser valve that everyone was talking about? Or is this something different and its just something else I should look at? Also can you give me some details on what it is for/does? Thanks!

[Roger Zimmermann]

Well, I will try to explain the system with my scolar English. When the heat riser is closed (it's located at the outlet from the exhaust manifold, driver side), the exhaust gases must go through the exhaust channel from the intake manifold, coming out at the passenger side exhaust. While they travel under the carb, they are heating that second rather long tube; at the same time, the engine is sucking some air through that heated tube to heat the choke spring.
You see, all those elements must work together to allow the cold engine to run properly and permit to open the choke once the engine is warm.
I hope that my explanation is making sense to you; if not I believe that the shop manual is giving some explanation too.

[76eldo]

A lifter tap sounds different than an exhaust leak but if you are not too familiar with diagnosing these things you may not know the difference.

I also have a 60 and I do have one noisy lifter. I used a quart of Rislone oil treatment a few years ago and it quieted the lifter down.  It started back up this year after winter storage so I will be trying that again.  The rule is new lifters with a new cam. You can replace lifters only but you never reuse old lifters on a new cam.

I have also been using and recommending Lucas Hot Rod Oil with a high level of zinc. It's the zinc that protects the cam and lifters from wear and since all cars made since the mid 90's have roller lifters not flat lifters oil manufacturers have removed the zinc.

If it's a lifter tap I'd try a can of Rislone. Some guys swear by Marvel Mystery Oil which may also work.  This may make the noise go away.
If it's an exhaust leak it will always make the same noise that goes away when the parts get hot and expand.

Brian

[35-709]

James, your heat riser valve will look much like pictured below.

Do yourself a huge favor and get the 1959 Cadillac Shop Manual and the 1960 Supplement.  Easy to find on eBay, for instance ---

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1959-CADILLAC-SHOP-MANUAL-/181736991421?hash=item2a505e6abd&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-CADILLAC-ORIGINAL-VINTAGE-SHOP-MANUAL-SUPPLEMENT-/281688225052?hash=item4195ed351c&vxp=mtr

[Tahoelover2002]

Okay so with all the information you guys have given me, I'm pretty sure that the noise is not a sticking lifter and simple the cracks in both the intake and exhaust manifold, as well as this heat riser valve being rusted closed. I will have to take a further look this weekend at the heat riser valve to see if I can tell if it open or closed. Where on the drivers side is the valve? Right in the middle under the carb? Also, anyone know of where I can get replacement exhaust and intake manifolds? Possibly used originals? I don't want some new chromed stuff that they are selling. Again thanks for your help with this!

[76eldo]

James,

NO not near the carb.

It's bolted to the outlet of the left side exhaust manifold, in line with the exhaust flow.

The discoloration near your choke tube on the intake is normal for that area.

If it is stuck open that's not a big deal, just takes longer for the car to warm up.  If it is stuck closed that means that way too much exhaust is being forced to heat up the intake manifold and will make the car run extremely hot.

When the engine is cold, you should be able to move the valve easily by hand.

If the car sat for a long time, it could be stuck.  If it's rusted closed or open, you need to remove it and free it up and sometimes the shaft needs to have new bushings installed so that the valve operates.

I'd remove the butterfly and leave it wide open if it doesn't work.

Brian

[Tahoelover2002]

Okay after taking a look at my car today, it looks like either one of two things happened:
#1: One of my exhaust manifolds has been replaced previous before I bought it and one is not the original
or #2: this heat riser valve has already been removed and configured something else in its place

I will upload some pictures for you guys to take a look at, but I don't see anything else close to what the picture that 35-709 posted. It just looks like the exhaust manifold goes right into the exhaust pipe and no valve. If you could, please take a look at them and let me know what you think. The number stamped onto the driver's side exhaust manifold is: 12-14 and the passenger side is: 1475390_2. Idk if anyone knows if either of these numbers is an original part number of the car.

These pictures are of the passenger side exhaust manifold

[Tahoelover2002]

and these pictures are of the drivers side exhaust manifold

[35-709]

No heat riser valve, one thing you won't have to worry about.  Does look like you have a coolant leak though --- that should be investigated.

[Tahoelover2002]

Yes I saw that myself. I already ordered gasket so I can take everything off and stop any leaks. Do you happen to know if either of these part numbers off my manifolds is the original. Or is there anyway for me to tell? Thanks