1957 hydra-matic issues

[Caddylad]

Hi there,

I have a problem with my 1957 CDV which I recently bought.
Reverse and 1st are working fine, it will change for 2nd (i guess) but not for 3rd and 4th.
When changing for 2nd, I must speed up guite a much and the gear kind of kicks in.

What could be the issue?
I have ordered the shop manuals, but not yet received them. So meanwhile any assistance would be highly appreciated.

The car was stored in cold barn (+30C...-30C) for 9 years by recent owner. I have now driven only about 5-10km with it.

Thanks in advance

[wbdeford]

What speed does it go from 1st to 2nd?  How fast have you driven it in 2nd?

With the pedal floored, 1->2 occurs at about 20mph, while 2->3 occurs at 35-45mph (depending on the rear axle).

If there is a problem with your TV rod (either very badly adjusted or somehow malfunctioned), the transmission may "think" you have it floored all the time, delaying the shifts.

Has the fluid been changed since you pulled it out of the barn?  If so, did you have the pan off so you could see how clean/dirty it was in there?

[wbdeford]

Another possibility is that you have 1st and 3rd, rather than 1st and 2nd.  If that is the case, then the problem is likely with the fluid coupling, though it could be a few other things. 

One way to test this would be to put the shifter in L.  If you still get your shift, then this is probably not the problem.

If you have a way to make a video of your car being driven, showing the speedometer while we can hear the sound of the engine, it might be easier to tell what is really going on.

[wbdeford]

1-2 shift is the same for all forward settings.....I don't like that, but that's how it was designed.  L just keeps it from going into 3 until about 50 or above and also provides engine braking.

So, if it shifts in L, you have 1-2.  If it doesn't you probably have 1-3.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Ask the previous owner if he knows if the transmissin was overhauled. If not, the various rubber seals are brobably hard and don't seal as they should. Morst of the time, the thin seals in the front unit coupling are no more tight are therefore you don't get second and 4th speed.

[chris cunliffe]

Use the search facility at the top of page to look for "57 transmission "and "TV rod adjustment" plenty of answers to read through.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Sorry, you cannot cure that problem without removing the transmission from car. When the transmission is out, yes, a complete overhaul is wise. If you have good mechanical capabilities, you may try to recondition the transmision yourself; some special tools are needed, especially to open the cover from the front unit coupling. This element is responsible for 2. and 4th speed, so you have to open it to replace the seals.
I'm ordering my transmission parts here: http://www.autotran.us/ but of course, there are other suppliers.
I could do that work for you; however, I'm afraid that the distance between us both is not very convenient!
Good luck!

[wbdeford]

If your car is a non-A/C car, you probably have the 3.07:1 axle.  If it is an A/C car, it is probably 3.36:1.

It is POSSIBLE there is a problem in the valve body preventing the coupling valve from opening.  You could try removing the pan and rebuilding the valve body.  But more likely, your fluid coupling is leaking.  Unfortunately, the only way to deal with that is to remove the transmission and disassemble the front of it to get to it.  The disassembly to that point isn't terribly difficult, once you have the transmission out of the car. 

[wbdeford]

And I agree with Roger Zimmerman, that if you go to the trouble to remove the transmission, a complete rebuild is the way to go.

[wbdeford]

The three axle options are 3.07:1, 3.36:1, and 3.77:1.  3.77:1 was only used in the Commercial Chassis, according to the shop manual.

Where do you live?  I have some of the special tools.

[57eldoking]

I have the 1-3 shift only symptom with my 57 Eldorado. I currently have the transmission out of the car and I'm about to pull the front unit coupling apart. I have some pictures of the process in this thread:

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=129733.20

[Caddylad]

Some updates for my -57 transmission problems:

Today I drove for car inspection (this was my first longer drive) and for my surprise, It started to shift for 4th gear...and probably 2nd also!
However the tranny does not work perfectly, some times have to wait for upshifting etc.

As transmission shop specialist here said; yes, seals could be leaking but also smaller turbine (=torus?) could be cracked.
So, the question is, does anybody know if torus would be cracked, would tranny work as descriped above?

[wbdeford]

The fluid coupling (which the shop guy is calling the smaller turbine) has a driving torus and a driven torus.  For it to function correctly it has to hold fluid so that the driving torus can force the driven torus to turn.  In Park, Neutral, Reverse, 1st, and 3rd, the coupling is empty.  To change to 2nd or 4th, the coupling has to fill with fluid.  If the coupling is cracked and losing fluid, it may still be able to  fill with fluid, but just take longer to do so.

[Roger Zimmermann]

I doubt that the cover is craked (but it could be); I suspect that the 2 thin seals are dry and have some leak which could retard 2. and 4th speed. At higher speed, the transmission will probably shift down to third gear.

[cadman56]

Be careful with that controlled coupling cover.  I broke one cover trying to disassemble it.  So I took my spare unit to an old transmission facility that had the special tools.  Good luck, Larry.

[Caddylad]

Thanks everyone for quick reply.

Yes, when I started my journey, it almost immediatelly upshifted for 4th gear, I was amazed.
Maybe sealants are little bit recovered after 9y in barn.
Hopefully the fault would be in old sealants, if so, master kit would be enough, but well see in time.

Are there many special tools required? expencive ones?

Thanks!