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Aftermarket Air Conditioning Unit in 1951 Cadillac Series 62

Started by polonus, May 28, 2015, 01:21:34 PM

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polonus

I have 1951 Cadillac Series 62 sedan. Car has 12V electric system. Heater blower doesn't work - I think it has 6V motor, which currently is disconnected. I am thinking about installing A/C-heater unit in this car, possibly something from Vintage Air. They do not have specific unit for that model, so I'll need to manufacture some brackets and other parts. Anybody can advice me how to go about it? Anyone else did it? Can you direct me to a shop in NC or SC who has experience in that kind of job?
In my garage:
1951 Cadillac Series 62 sedan
1972 Mercury Cougar XR7
1988 Fiat 126p
2008 BMW M3 with ESS Supercharger
2014 BMW 328 - my wife's
2 of 2015 Nissan Leafs - my kid's

ebuliavac

If you have 12v, you are half-way there.  You just need the pulleys and brackets, plus a proper fan and the A/C system.  I found the pulleys and brackets on this forum, a good place to start.  Mine were for a flathead though, and you have ohv, so yours is probably a little easier.  Vintage Air has a lot of good components.  Not sure where to get pulleys, but brackets can be fabricated at a local machine shop.  They can probably help with a pulley as well, to turn the compressor and alternator. This has been done before, so you're not venturing into uncharted territory.  Good luck!  Ed Buliavac
1940 6227C
1996 Fleetwood Brougham

Dan LeBlanc

If you don't t want to fabricate compressor brackets, you could go this route. Will mean an upgrade to a 100 amp alternator to handle the fan unit and compressor.

https://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/SHM-Electric-Air-Conditioning-Compressor-6613

I'm contemplating that with a trunk mounted evaporator for my 53. 
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

polonus

Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on May 28, 2015, 07:22:06 PM
If you don't t want to fabricate compressor brackets, you could go this route. Will mean an upgrade to a 100 amp alternator to handle the fan unit and compressor.

https://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/SHM-Electric-Air-Conditioning-Compressor-6613

I'm contemplating that with a trunk mounted evaporator for my 53. 

It is interesting option, however isn't any cheaper. It could be easier to execute thou and maybe I could do it myself, instead of paying $100 per hour in some shop.

Quote from: ebuliavac on May 28, 2015, 05:11:20 PM
I found the pulleys and brackets on this forum, a good place to start.  Mine were for a flathead though, and you have ohv, so yours is probably a little easier.  [...] This has been done before, so you're not venturing into uncharted territory.  Good luck!  Ed Buliavac

Thx. If by any chance you know exactly where to look , I'd appreciate that help.
In my garage:
1951 Cadillac Series 62 sedan
1972 Mercury Cougar XR7
1988 Fiat 126p
2008 BMW M3 with ESS Supercharger
2014 BMW 328 - my wife's
2 of 2015 Nissan Leafs - my kid's

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Don,
With all due respects, the capacity of that electric compressor as listed is 6613 BTUH. Without  long diatribe, the capacity of the A=-5 and the A-6 compressors is 27,000 BTUH, or better than 4 times the electric, and what is necessary for a full size car. VintageAir would be my choice for an after market system.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Dan LeBlanc

Never thought of that aspect, Greg.  When it comes to fabricating brackets to make something aftermarket work, that's where my skills are lacking.

Now, I do have a set of 1961 A5 compressor brackets and an A5 compressor.  Now you've got me thinking about how I could use those brackets and the A5 (or an A5 to A6 conversion kit) to marry that up with a trunk mounted Vintage Air system.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

polonus

Quote from: "Cadillac Kid"  Greg Surfas 15364 on May 29, 2015, 10:26:17 AM
Don,
With all due respects, the capacity of that electric compressor as listed is 6613 BTUH. Without  long diatribe, the capacity of the A=-5 and the A-6 compressors is 27,000 BTUH, or better than 4 times the electric, and what is necessary for a full size car. VintageAir would be my choice for an after market system.
Greg Surfas

Thanks for pointing that out. HERE I found some interesting thoughts about electric units. I guess I'll have to go back to the traditional, belt driven compressor, however $4000 for a complete job is awfully expensive for me at this moment. I either have to delay that project or try to do it myself. For now it probably will be a stainless steel fan.  :-\
In my garage:
1951 Cadillac Series 62 sedan
1972 Mercury Cougar XR7
1988 Fiat 126p
2008 BMW M3 with ESS Supercharger
2014 BMW 328 - my wife's
2 of 2015 Nissan Leafs - my kid's

ebuliavac

$4,000 seems like a lot, given the price of Vintage Air products, which are quite reasonable.  Maybe another estimate?  I doubt the job would take over 20-30 hours at an experienced shop.  Closer to $3K with parts seems about right.  I'm doing this myself right now. These parts bolt in and unless you are modifying the dash, the vents simply mount below.  Hopefully no need to ride around in a hot car this summer.  Ed Buliavac
1940 6227C
1996 Fleetwood Brougham

Dan LeBlanc

Ed

What did you do for compressor brackets?  That's the only thing holding me back from a Vintage Air setup as I'm doubtful in my ability to fabricate a bracket.  The rest all seems very straightforward.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

polonus

Quote from: ebuliavac on May 29, 2015, 01:38:20 PM
$4,000 seems like a lot, given the price of Vintage Air products, which are quite reasonable.  Maybe another estimate?  I doubt the job would take over 20-30 hours at an experienced shop.  Closer to $3K with parts seems about right.

$1000-1300 for the hardware, 30 hours at $80-100 per hour and we are in the $4000 range. However before I go that way I'll try to find less expensive solution.

Quote from: ebuliavac on May 29, 2015, 01:38:20 PMI'm doing this myself right now. These parts bolt in and unless you are modifying the dash, the vents simply mount below.

Would you be kind enough to record and share the progress of that project?

Quote from: ebuliavac on May 29, 2015, 01:38:20 PMHopefully no need to ride around in a hot car this summer.

I am old enough to remember cars without AC.  8) My first cars, used and new, I had in the USA didn't have any. In my first truck driving job I also had a truck without AC. I will survive a year or two in hot Cadillac. My little Fiat has only cheap fan from Wal Mart. I don't even think about any AC for that vehicle. Even the smallest compressor would stall that little engine.  :'( ;D

Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on May 29, 2015, 01:48:10 PM
Ed

What did you do for compressor brackets?  That's the only thing holding me back from a Vintage Air setup as I'm doubtful in my ability to fabricate a bracket.  The rest all seems very straightforward.

Ditto. Woud you share any blueprints of  it?
In my garage:
1951 Cadillac Series 62 sedan
1972 Mercury Cougar XR7
1988 Fiat 126p
2008 BMW M3 with ESS Supercharger
2014 BMW 328 - my wife's
2 of 2015 Nissan Leafs - my kid's

TJ Hopland

Vintage Air has some universal brackets where the hard part is done.  Maybe that would be enough to get you started?   They also have that York conversion one that maybe could be easily modified to fit your engine?

http://www.vintageair.com/2014catalog/Pages%20from%202014%20VintageAir%20Cat%20rev%208-15%2069.pdf

The Sanden compressors are pretty easy to come by and seem to be pretty reliable. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

bcroe

Back in the 60s we got 37A alternators, 63A for cars with air.  The compressor needs very little
current; the blower is a little bigger than a simple heater.  I believe the electronic alternators do
better at lower rpm, than the early mechanical regulator units.  There were a lot of "add on" air
units around, I installed quite a few including 2 on my cars.  They hung under the center of the
dash, but I put a couple in the back.  $300 would about cover it.

Those units all used R12, hard to get now.  Not particularly designed for any model, a compressor
mount kit needed to match the engine.  The 2 cylinder compressor was kind of rough running. 
Don't forget the drains, or it will fill your car with ice water.  A simple thermostat cycled the
compressor, probably used a lot less gas than factory.  Don't forget the cooling system, at
minimum get a 6/7 blade fan with a baffle; a heavy duty radiator is a great idea, I highly
recommend an engine temp gauge and a radiator overflow tank. 

These days you need to deal with all the above issues, mount, refrigerant, etc.  And apparently
far greater expense.   Some study might allow saving a bundle on a DIY job.  First one I did
was charged by someone else, before I learned to charge them myself.  good luck, Bruce Roe

Caddy Wizard

I have installed a Vintage Air unit behind the dash of a 49 (very similar to the dash on a 51) and speaking from experience it is quite tight back there.  Here are some pictures of that, including a custom dash extension I built to house the outlets and the controls. I don't think I would install a unit behind the dash again.  By the way, if you do want to go that route, I have an extra one of these custom dash extensions I could sell.  It would fit your 51 dash like a glove.

An aftermarket under-dash unit looks ugly and out of place to me.

My choice would be a trunk-mounted evaporator with air outlets coming up through the package shelf.  Use the 54-56 Cadillac Coupe/CDV air conditioning outlets for a nice, Cadillac-style appearance.  This won't be as effective as a front-mounted unit that blows cold air directly on your face.  But it will work well enough and disturbs your car the least.

Art
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Caddy Wizard

Here is the second picture...
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

walt chomosh #23510

As far as fabing brackets,here's my story....I would have to consider myself fairly high level(A/C trained,machinist,tig welder,etc.) and when it came time for my son to fab A/C brackets for a 1964 Chevelle,I stepped in with my chest out!(I'm a pro,right?) Well,we finally got a bracket made but it's hard to count all the failures we had! A few tips I would give is to have perfect alignment,try to use twin belts,and make it HEAVY duty! HEAVY DUTY! After throwing belt after belt I feel like I'm a fool for not buying stock in Gates Rubber...walt...tulsa,ok

Dan LeBlanc

It'll be interesting to see if, in my case, I can fit the 61 compressor brackets to the 53.  I may have to relocate the oil filter, but that seems easy enough.  I'm sure those would be heavy duty enough.  Could have the A5 rebuilt, and mate that to my trunk mounted system.  Would look somewhat stock under the hood and not jump right out at you.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

TJ Hopland

They are fairly expensive but I think there are a couple people custom building a Sanden like compressor to be a direct replacement for the A6.  Same mounting locations and hose connections.  It does not quite look the same if that is what is important to you but if you can mount an a6 at least that part would work out.    I briefly looked at them but the cost was pretty high and limited number of vendors which usually is not a good sign for long term value and support.   I also needed new lines anyway so having different ends was no extra cost.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

ebuliavac

I got the brackets, fan and an alternator from a fellow on this forum.  The brackets are installed, as are the compressor and evaporator units.  I'm sorry I don't have dimensions.  You can search on this forum to find others who have done it.  My alternator sits where the generator was located and the compressor is on the passenger side.  The dash is still off the car and we are re-wiring, so nothing works yet.  Hope this helps.  Ed Buliavac

P.S. I did a little research: Vintage Air sells brackets as TJ mentioned, including a universal one which could possibly be modified for your engine and hood space.  I have a flathead and you have an OHV 331, so the two brackets needed would be similar but probably not identical.  Here's one designed to be modified: http://www.alangrovecomponents.com/Universal.htm.  It seems Vintage Air also sells this bracket.  Anyway, check p. 69 of their online PDF catalog.  You may just need to drill a couple of holes for mounting the universal bracket, and it might need to be shimmed.  The brackets have a slot so you can adjust belt tension.  If you have an alternator, that means you probably have a v-belt pulley that will also turn the compressor, so you are very close to having everything you need.  For machine shops and fabrication, I have worked with Matt Pumphrey at Pumphrey & Co in Campbell CA.  Problem is they are not local for you, but you can always give them a call.  There are '51s out here as well, so maybe they can look at one and make something for you.  http://www.pumphreyandco.com/  Good luck and keep us posted!  Let us know if you have further questions.  Ed
1940 6227C
1996 Fleetwood Brougham

Tye_Cowan

Great Thread!

I'm putting AC in my 53.  The universal bracket looks like a great template.  Where would it mount on the block?  Which pulley (or pulleys) will drive the compressor?  What other "gotchas" should I be looking out for?

Please view my post:  http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=141310.msg336877#msg336877

Tye Cowan
Tye Cowan
1953 Series 75