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Help With Starter

Started by TrevorK, May 31, 2015, 12:00:11 PM

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TrevorK

Hi all - Looking for some advice with a starter issue. The starter on my 63 was starting to go so I had it rebuilt by a local shop. I've reinstalled the starter, but there is nothing when I turn the key. The car has power, but nothing at all from when the key is turned. Any thoughts? I don't think it's wired incorrectly, but could that be it?

Also, when I took it out I neglected to first disconnect the battery and there was a short spark when the wrench touched the chassis. I wondered if I had blown a fuse but I don't think there is one on the starter circuit.
Trevor Korsrud

1960 Cadillac Coupe DeVille
1963 Cadillac Convertible

Julien Abrahams

Isn't there a fusible link (equal to a fuse) between the starter and the ignition switch. If you accidentally made a short it might be that this fusible link has burnt through. I would check this first. I'm not sure if you can still get these fusible links, but I have replaced one with a normal in line fuse.
1954 Cadillac series 62
1967 Cadillac Sedan De Ville HT
1969 Austin Healey Sprite
1979 Opel Kadett

35-709

Fusible link wire is available at most parts stores (NAPA, Carquest, etc.) in different sizes.  Match your wire size to what you buy and make sure the fusible link wire is the same length as what you are replacing --- it matters.  Had to replace all three on my '73, those fusible link wires live in hell down there by the starter.  A pic of my old ones below ---
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

bcroe

Quote from: TrevorK on May 31, 2015, 12:00:11 PM
Hi all - Looking for some advice with a starter issue. The starter on my 63 was starting to go so I had it rebuilt by a local shop. I've reinstalled the starter, but there is nothing when I turn the key. The car has power, but nothing at all from when the key is turned. Any thoughts? I don't think it's wired incorrectly, but could that be it?

Also, when I took it out I neglected to first disconnect the battery and there was a short spark when the wrench touched the chassis. I wondered if I had blown a fuse but I don't think there is one on the starter circuit.

Put a 12V test light from ground to the big starter stud for the battery cable and see if you have
power.  If yes, you might connect it to the small terminal with the heavy purple wire, which is
supposed to activate the solenoid which activates the starter.  It should light when you turn to
START.  Alternately, you could bridge across between them and see if the starter runs. 

Later models ran usable links, etc down to the big starter stud, a very bad (penny pinching) idea. 
But my 63 Olds had a big stud on the inner fender for that stuff, out of the vibration, heat, and
water.  A single big wire went from there to the starter,and the solenoid wire.  Perhaps a 63 Cad
did the same?  I have converted all my cars back to this superior arrangement.  Bruce Roe

TrevorK

Thanks for the tips guys. I did some more testing this morning and I have power at the starter. I also have power at the starter when the ignition is on. However no power at the "S" terminal on the starter when the key is turned to start. This leads me to think the problem is in the ignition circuit (likely the fusible link you mentioned). What does this look like, where is it and how do I go about replacing it?
Trevor Korsrud

1960 Cadillac Coupe DeVille
1963 Cadillac Convertible

TrevorK

I opened up the lower dash to have a look at the wiring. It looks like I have some melting of the plastic around the ignition switch connection. I'm not sure how recent this is or if related to the current problem. Seems like I should replace the whole ignition wiring harness (would that replace the fusible link as well?). Seems like this could be a big job - the car season is so short here it kills me to think I may have her off the road for a while.
Trevor Korsrud

1960 Cadillac Coupe DeVille
1963 Cadillac Convertible

TrevorK

Here's a photo of the connection.
Trevor Korsrud

1960 Cadillac Coupe DeVille
1963 Cadillac Convertible

curly

Wow, something is definitely pulling a lot of amps. I wouldn't replace the entire harness, I'd replace that connector and then cut and splice (solder and heat shrink) a short section of wiring to bypass the melted section.

If you have no power at the S terminal with the key turned to crank, I'd take a look at the park/neutral (or Neutral Saftey) switch. Power flows from the key to the NSS and then to the S terminal. If no power there, then that melted connector is the most likely cause.

The fusible link is most likely on the large stud on the starter, the same one the battery cable is on.  If it is not there, it must be on the battery end of the cable.  You did check to see if you reconnected all the wires on the starter, right?  It wouldn't be the first time someone overlooked the fuse links on reassembly. They can be easy to miss if you are working on your back.


T Lewis

TrevorK

Thanks! I think I got all the wires. Large wire from the battery to the solenoid. Yellow wire to the "S", purple wire to the "R" and ground to the chassis. Any others I might have missed?

Trevor
Trevor Korsrud

1960 Cadillac Coupe DeVille
1963 Cadillac Convertible

curly

Trevor,
Re: fusible links
I don't know if this is how GM did it on a 63 Cad, but most Gm cars through the early 80's used something like this, the links are blue in the picture.

T Lewis

TrevorK

So the fusible link would be a separate wire that attaches to the same terminal as the wire from the starter? Maybe I missed hooking that up?
Trevor Korsrud

1960 Cadillac Coupe DeVille
1963 Cadillac Convertible

Jason Edge

#11
These are very simple starting systems.
You have a positive cable from battery to the large bolt on the solenoid, a yellow wire from the (R) side of solenoid to the ignition coil, and a dark blue wire from the (S) side of solenoid to the Neutral Safety Switch, which in turn is fed by the purple(violet) wire form the ignition switch. With ignition switch turned to far right cranking position, the purple wire feeds the 12 volts to the starter solenoid, and the yellow wire provides a full 12 volts to the coil for cranking. When you release the switch and have in run condition the coil is fed reduced voltage via the resister wire in front if the pink wire off the ignition switch.

With that said, probably the most important piece to this puzzle is the large ground strap that runs from the right frame rail over to the large bolt through transmission bell housing to engine and starter. If this is not connected and making good connection your starter will not work.   Check your ground strap and make sure it is making good connection.

If all other wiring is connected correctly , you could also have a bad ignition switch. You can disconnect the large connector on the back of the ignition switch and hot wire the car by connecting the red (battery) to pink (ignition) wire and touching to Purple (starter).  I had a switch go bad on the way to a car show a few years back and made a quick 3 way jumper to hot wire the car. Here is a video showing how simple it is: http://6364cadillac.ning.com/video/hot-wired-ignition-switches

Bypassing the Neutral Safety Switch is just a matter of unplugging the connector with the purple and dark blue wire and jumping the connector.
Jason Edge
Lifetime Member
Executive Vice President
CLC 1963/64 Cadillac Chapter Director - www.6364Cadillac.com
CLC Carolina Region Webmaster - www.CRCLC.org
CLC MRC Benefactor
email - jasonedge64@outlook.com
1964 Coupe DeVille - Sierra Gold - http://bit.ly/1WnOQRX
2002 Escalade EXT - Black
2013 Escalade EXT Premium Edition - Xenon Blue
2022 XT5 Luxury Premium - Dark Moon Blue Metallic

Julien Abrahams

x2 on what Jason and Curly said. I would also replace just the connector. Also have a look at your ignition switch. It might be on its way out after a coupel of decades of service.
1954 Cadillac series 62
1967 Cadillac Sedan De Ville HT
1969 Austin Healey Sprite
1979 Opel Kadett

TrevorK

Jason - Thanks so much for that info. I was able to trace the circuit bases on your description. It turns out I had connected the blue wire to the starter in such a way that the wire was contacting with a bolt on the solenoid.  I moved it slightly and all is working again. Success!
Trevor Korsrud

1960 Cadillac Coupe DeVille
1963 Cadillac Convertible

Jason Edge

Good to hear it was a simple fix!
Jason Edge
Lifetime Member
Executive Vice President
CLC 1963/64 Cadillac Chapter Director - www.6364Cadillac.com
CLC Carolina Region Webmaster - www.CRCLC.org
CLC MRC Benefactor
email - jasonedge64@outlook.com
1964 Coupe DeVille - Sierra Gold - http://bit.ly/1WnOQRX
2002 Escalade EXT - Black
2013 Escalade EXT Premium Edition - Xenon Blue
2022 XT5 Luxury Premium - Dark Moon Blue Metallic