News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

alternatior for 6 to 12 volt on 41 cadillac 60 special

Started by mr41cadillac, June 13, 2015, 05:08:14 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mr41cadillac

i need to know the alternator that will fit my bracket for a 6 to 12 volt conversion on 1941 cadillac 60 special.  iv tried the 00 wire the extra ground and joining 2 optima batteries with not much luck. but with a 12 volt she cranks graet. time to convert. thanks john

Steve Passmore

There is no bolt on 12 volt alternator. The front bracket is particular to the flathead.    This has been discussed at length on this forum.     Beckers Auto Electrics used to produce them but when the father died the sons had no idea how he produced them so that was the end of that. 'Bobby' was considering making them at one stage.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Bill Ingler #7799

Hi John: Before you convert to 12 volt let me ask you if you have the 4 grounds on your car as indicated by the arrows in the picture below. Remember this combination engine and transmission is sitting on rubber, the two front motor mounts as well as the transmission mount. You indicated that you have used 00 cable for the battery and added extra ground. When your car came new from the factory it had the right front engine mount ground as well two grounds from the heads to the firewall. Then the positive ground from the battery to the frame. I think sometime in 1947 another engine mount ground was added to the left front motor mount. In addition to that some, like myself to insure a good ground, have grounded the battery cable to under one of the starter to bell housing bolts while others have grounded that cable direct to the starter. Now, if you have all these grounds and they are clean grounds, plus 00 battery cable as you said, plus an Optima battery, make that two Optima batteries, that engine should be no problem to start. Could your starter need rebuilding? Does the car start OK when it is cold or is the starting problem when the engine is hot.     Bill


Jay Friedman

I agree with everything Bill Ingler wrote.

As for Bill's point about grounding the battery "direct to the starter", Art Gardner and I recently wrote an article for the Self Starter on exactly how to do this, which greatly improves starter performance.  I don't know exactly in which forthcoming SS issue it will appear, but Tim Coy, who works with editor Steve Stewart, called me a week ago about some editing so I think it will appear soon.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

It has been said many times but when things are right there is no problem with all of the original starter equipment as designed by Cadillac.  It works if it is restored to new.  That is not necessarily easy but it can be done.
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

mr41cadillac

I have for grounds 1 on each side front motor mount to frame, one from starter to to battery, one from frame to battery. all connections were wire brushed to bare metal and I had cables made fronm the 00 wire. also I connected the 2, 6 volt optimas. some times it starts some time starter just clicks. if I put in a 12 volt she starts so much quicker and every time. ive had the starter off and inspected . only question was maybe the field coils ? anyhow I want to get this sweet running car reliable after spending so much on engine ect. of course when I put in the 12 volt it blows some of the 6 volt overhead and side bulbs. its getting to seem like best way is to convert. I love originallty but can live with a few not very noticeable changes to make this car reliable. any ides thanks for all input. john

Bobby B

John,
  Hi. Steve has mentioned that I'm working on a modern style Alternator Conversion Bracket for our Flatheads if you're going that route. I'm in the process now of finishing it up. These things take time, so if you're in no major rush, I will have the answer if you're going 12 Volt. Using a compact high output GM Alternator, it will be a factory looking adjustable bracket and a direct replacement for the 6 Volt Generator. There are people selling Alternators concealed in a Generator case, but you need to take out a second mortgage to purchase one. I'm trying to keep the costs at a minimum and the more people I have interested, the cheaper I can do it. Hope this helps.
Steve, Thanks again for all your help!
                                                               Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

mr41cadillac

bobby am I correct in assuming the bracket will fit where the bolts go thru the 6 volt generator ? I will not have to replace my timing chain cover whick looks like is the present bracket? thanks john

Bobby B

John,
  Hi…Direct bolt on. Nothing to change but the clip on the harness, and  bypass the factory voltage regulator internally. Trying to be able to use the stock length belt also.  In the process …..Any others interested, please contact me. Thinking about starting off with a dozen. Just trying to help us Flathead owners out. Thanks,
                                                                                                                         Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Steve Passmore

Count me in there Bobby, and John, I should have told you that you were opening a bag of worms with your first question :-\
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

mr41cadillac

i talked to my friend about this. what we want to do is put on a modern alternator that cranks on 12volt. the rest of the car will be run on 6 volt. he says this was done all the time in past times. he wanted to know specifically  which  alternator. also when will you have the bracket and the cost. thanks john

Glen


I agree with Joe. 

Normally when the solenoid pulls in it moves the gear to engage in flywheel then the plunger connects the motor to the battery.  Sometimes the gear teeth do not mesh and the plunger does not move as far as if the gear did mesh.  But the contact to the battery still needs to be made to turn the motor and allow the gear to turn so it will mesh.  If the linkage between the gear and the contact is not the right length then when the gears do not mesh the contact is not made and nothing happens except for a click sound. 

By using 12 volts there is a stronger pull on the solenoid and the necessary battery contact is made.

The 1937 shop manual has a procedure to adjust the linkage. 

Try that and see if the problem goes away.       
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

mr41cadillac

bobby did you know the exact alternator I would need and the bracket cost ? thanks john

mr41cadillac


Jay Friedman

I had a dual 6/12 volt battery in my '49 some years ago before I improved my 6 volt system.  It worked very well starting the car but while using it my 6v voltage regulator didn't last long.  I wasn't able to determine the exact cause, but I'm guessing the "wall" between the 12v starting circuit and 6v for everything else wasn't perfect, thereby allowing 12 volts to "leak" into the regulator and frying it.  I must have replaced 3 or 4 regulators before I fixed the grounds and other problems and was able to re-install the original 6v starting system. 
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

Does the starter have an actual solenoid?  If so, check that.  Had one go bad on the plane.  Those get buildup inside them over time and you end up with resistance.  It will spin the starter but you won't get all the Umph.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

lt morty

Quote from: Bobby B on June 14, 2015, 10:55:17 AM
John,
  Hi…Direct bolt on. Nothing to change but the clip on the harness, and  bypass the factory voltage regulator internally. Trying to be able to use the stock length belt also.  In the process …..Any others interested, please contact me. Thinking about starting off with a dozen. Just trying to help us Flathead owners out. Thanks,
                                                                                                                         Bobby

Bobby!

I'm interested in an 12 bolt on alterantor for my 1941 series 61. Count me in if You make this happen.

Regards

Morten
1941 Cadillac Series 61
1944 Ford GPW
Bantam trailer

Bobby B

Morten,
Hi….Trying to get a few more people to commit. Would like to get at least a dozen brackets fabricated to keep the costs down. Will keep you posted. Thanks,
               Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Steve Passmore

Any idea what alternator you plan to use Bobby? Will have to be something small to have its front machined to fit the bracket. Sadly the ones I have from Beckers Auto Electrics have no numbers on them.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Bobby B

Steve,
Hi. Been using the GM CS 131 so far with no issues. Compact, Plentiful, Cost-effective, Efficient, and a 74 amp output. Have the whole thing mapped out now. Waiting for the CNC costs. Thanks,
               Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH