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'59 Biarritz: are we really up there now?

Started by Blade, July 26, 2015, 01:06:18 PM

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Blade

I was very surprised to see the price of this '59 Biarritz on Hemmings. Is the market really up there with these cars?

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/cadillac/eldorado-biarritz/1749240.html

Bobby B

The price is over the top but so is the restoration. Hard to tell from pictures, but that has to be one of the nicest I've ever seen. More power to you if you can sell it at that price. Very sharp car to look at…...
                                                  Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#2
Dreamland.

Missing Air Suspension is a serious demerit right out of the starting gate. Substitution of Haartz convertible roof material was also ill advised in my view. There are number of other questionable authenticity items, unfortunately there are not nearly enough detail close up shots in order to render a meaningful evaluation.

A car like this you will never want to drive; rapid deterioration is assured once you begin taking it out on the road.

Secondly, a frame off restored car will never - ever - be as tight, quiet as one that had not been disassembled. Period. These cars weren't the tightest creatures to begin with when they rolled off of the showroom floor - especially convertibles. And once the frame is separated from the body, structural integrity is compromised forever.

Only thing you can do with a car like this is look at it - and some collectors are fine with that.



A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Blade

#3
Totally agree with you Eric, that is why I was surprised to see it. It is a restored car, there goes some value from it no matter what. And just a few months ago a black with red interior total original (original interior/paint/chrome ... etc.) in fantastic condition went for $232,000 on Barrett-Jackson. This restored car, while a very fine example as Bob pointed it out, still restored ... also does not have cruise control which I thought was standard on the Biarritz? Maybe not.

He also says:"In its original guise the Cadillac Eldorado cost nearly twice as much as a fully equipped Series 62 demonstrating just how special the “Eldo” was when compared with its stablemates", which is not true. Base (NOT fully equipped) Series 62 convertible was $5,455 while an already almost fully loaded 'base' Eldorado was $7,400 - and that's with already a LOT of options installed as 'standard'!

On the other hand I know Hyman has been in the business forever and you'd think would know what the values are, why would he put a tag on for twice as much as any of these cars ever sold for? I guess we just have to wait and see what happens.

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#4
He's looking for a fish - nothing wrong with that but it's not going to happen. At least nowhere near that kind of change.

Lot of people got burned over the years on cars that were made-up & dolled-up. Knowledge & expertise is higher than it ever was; days of the deep-pocketed "dumb" buyer are over. That is a major reason for the increasing emphasis on originality: You know what you're getting.

For $500K, you could easily acquire two outstanding original '59 EBZ and have enough left over to buy a brand new ATS for daily driving.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute


Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#6
That's a good one.

Like daddy always says, "Money doesn't spend itself."
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Bobby B

LOL! You're killin' me…..
                           Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

In any case, the Haartz top and chrome spears suggest the resto was done more with a view to dazzle than of authenticity.

Cruise Control was standard equipment on the Eldorado Brougham but not on Biarritz/Seville. 

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Ken Perry

 It looks pretty nice to me ,not saying its worth 1/2 a mill ! I would at least want a master cylander lid that wasn't plastic and a horn ring that wasn't bent !  :) Ken Perry 
Cadillac Ken

tozerco

There are a lot of people out there who have a great deal of money and who treat a car like this the way they treat a piece of artwork or a bottle of wine....

The current market benchmark is $XXXX. So look for something clearly ahead of that market and pay $3XXX for it. Doesn't matter really because you've got so much it will otherwise just sit in a merchant bank account somewhere and you can't have any fun with it there! Your $3XXX becomes the new market benchmark and the world of cars/art/wine will race to catch/outdo you.

Some few years down the track your $3XXX looks pretty tame really. In the meantime you have had a few years of really interesting cocktail and dinner parties (or, more appropriately nowadays, facebook posts).
John Tozer
#7946

'37 7513
'37 7533

Marcel75

In a speculative word, the actual value of such a car is the money you get the day you sell it...

Chris Conklin

A fish... He's looking for a whale. Nice car though. Does the tag show it was originally triple black?
Chris Conklin

David Greenburg

And I thought the white one in Hemmings for 235k was pricey . . .
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

76eldo

That car is magnificent and the work on it is completely insane in a good way.  There is so much money into that restoration it's amazing. As far as the asking price, Mark Hyman may be trying to impress his TV buddies, or trying to make a killing and hope to find a Jillionaire who will want that car.  The collector car world is crazy these days, some things are bargains right now and some are not.  Good luck to him.

I have a few questions after looking at those photos:

1.  Do 60's have those flex looking covers on the exhaust or just 59's?  Are they there to reduce noise?  The look like they would rattle.  Are those the actual pipes or over the actual pipes?

2.  Are 59 and 60 AC lines that different?  That metal line that lakes a 90 degree turn and goes to the condenser is way different than any setup I have seen before.  Are there early and late 59 set ups?

3.  Anyone know who did the restoration?  That's some amazing work.

As far as the air ride, there is nothing that rides better than a proper air ride set up but so many were removed and replaced with springs that it's common to see.  This car is not going to be driven much but even so, at least the next owner won't have to deal with keeping the Air Ride working.  I wouldn't want to take a wrench to that car, ever.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

eldo59

Secondly, a frame off restored car will never - ever - be as tight, quiet as one that had not been disassembled. Period. These cars weren't the tightest creatures to begin with when they rolled off of the showroom floor - especially convertibles. And once the frame is separated from the body, structural integrity is compromised forever.

I learn something new everyday. :)
Mauro Bonfitto

rwchatham CLC 21892

I dont know if I can agree that once the body is removed from the frame structural integrity is compromised. I agree that an original car  is fantastic to drive but the body and frame were separate pieces to begin with. I think it depends on who is restoring the car.  Did they put all the sound insulation back in , did they install all of the proper clips, screws and tabs back to original or were some left out ? The factory workers bolted the body to the frame so if someone takes the time to do it properly it can be duplicated. I have seen many restorations that have more time invested in getting them right than the factory spent on them. I think you would have more integrity issues once someone starts doing actual floor , rocker and trunk pan work on a body depending on who is doing the work than what the actual unbolting and remounting of the body would cause.  You would have to drive the restoration in question to determine if it drives tight or not. 
R. Waligora

wrefakis

did anyone look at the details on this restoration?
c,mon Ray,what color are your deck lid to hinge bolts?

do you think when you do not even get that correct that you really rebuilt the steering shaft so it does not shake rattle and roll over bumps?

every small detail on this car is wrong, so I think its safe to assume they missed all the ones you do not see

yes the market is looking a bit like the republican front runner plenty of self promotion but a bit light on reality


76eldo

Bill, do you know this car?  Have you ever seen Tommy's in Brooklyn?

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado