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'60 Eldo door jamb switch fix

Started by David Greenburg, July 29, 2015, 06:46:05 PM

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David Greenburg

I need to replace the door jamb switch on my '60 Seville.  This is the 4 wire switch also used on the '62 Eldo, and apparently nothing else.  I have been offered a 3 wire switch and told that I can just double up one pair of leads.  Anyone done this, or know if it will work.  I've put LEDs in in the door and quarter panel light fixtures, so I'm not too concerned about overloading anything.  If it works, it would be easier that trying to patch together the cracked case of my original switch.
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

Glen

There are four separate wires on switch because there are four separate circuits.  For example you might have the map light, the dome light, under dash lights, and maybe a key in ignition warning buzzer.   Each may have additional means of turning them on such as a switch next to the map light; rotating the headlight switch; rear door switches etc.   If you splice two wires together then there maybe unintended results.  For example you may get a key in ignition warning when you turn on the map light. 

By keeping the wires separate you keep the functions separate.   
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

76eldo

#2
On a 60 there is no key warning. That started many years later.

On my 60 there are a lot of lights that come on when you open the door. They may be split into a couple of different circuits.

Without looking at a wiring diagram I'm going to make an assumption that you have two pairs of wires that are connected by the movement of the switch when you open up the door.

It's also possible that the passenger side door wiring is tied to the driver's side switch too.

If that's the case you should be able to double up on these if you have a three conductor switch.

On the three pin switch take an ohm meter and confirm that the two pins produce continuity when the switch is in its normal state like when the door is open. The one that doesn't give continuity will probably be the power feed pin.

Then measure when you push in the switch in and see if that opens up the circuit. 

Then switch your meter to volts and see which of the four wires has power. It may be one or two.
If it's two and two then jump the power wires together and the non powered wires together and that should turn on all the lights. Then connect to your switch the same way, connect the two power wires to the pin you determined was the individual pin on the three pin switch.  So when the door is shut, no flow.  When the door is open the plus voltage flows out to the bulb wires.  If you get male and female spade lugs and some wire, you can make up some jumpers and not have to cut the wires so this will be reversible in the future.

That's my theory.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

76eldo

Steve,

So the switch makes or breaks a ground to the wires?

If that's the case my post above will not work, it will just blow fuses.

I'd be able to make this work with a meter and some test leads, but hard to explain in writing.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Guys,
This subject was discussed in GREAT detail a few months ago. I suggest a search.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Glen

All the door switches I’ve seen only ground the wires that are connected to it.  If you check the wires with a meter to ground you will find they all have power.  But when grounded the accompanying light will light.   

In normal condition (door open) all the wires are connected to the threaded part of the switch which is of course grounded. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

David Greenburg

Glen is correct.  I also saw the prior thread including Steven T's discussion on how to create a 4 contact switch from a three contact switch.  But I was hoping I could just double up one pair of contacts and use the 3 contact switch.  But it sounds like the lights would not work correctly if I did that.  What I find confusing is that while there are four wires coming into the switch, the wiring diagram only shows 3 wires coming in.  It does show the switch as grounded, of course, but that is accomplished by the tangs that touch the body.  I'll probably try again to repair my damaged original switch before trying to doctor a 3 contact switch.
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

76eldo

If the switch only provides a path to ground, and ground is common for the entire car, I can't see why you need four pins to make things work here.  It may be doing more than that.

What happens if you ground each of the wires individually?

Do any of the wires have 12 v positive?

Brian

Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Gary Christensen CLC # 21112

Don't double up one of the circuits.

I have a '62 Eldorado and I need one of those switches too.

I rewired my interior and undid many messes that prior owners made of the electrical system.  The 4-circuit door jamb switch was one of the things I sorted out.  The problem I had was that because of the doubled up circuit, too much current was drawn causing too much bulb heat causing discoloration of some plastic lenses.

I have had no luck finding one of the four way jamb switches, so right now I have nothing on one side (other than a string leading to the four wires inside the door so that I can pull them through when I finally find/make a switch).

Have you taken your 4 way switch apart?  It's a marvel.  There's a copper thing that engages each circuit separately.  That copper thing can catch and get crunched.  I haven't had great luck un-crinkling it and reusing it.  At some point I'll try to make one or something.

Gary

David Greenburg

Gary:

That is interesting, as I have some scorching on the lenses as well. Now I'm wondering if I should look at my pass. side switch and see if it is doubled up or something.  Seems to work fine, although it looks different; instead of the unfinished metal faceplate and black plastic/Bakelite? plunger on the drivers side, the switch on the pass. side is all plastic and an off-white color.  I am familiar with the innards of my switch, as my problem began when I popped out the driver side switch to check bad ground, forgot about it an then tried to close the door on it, cracking the case and popping the top off.  So one option is to try and reconstruct the old case in the event that I can't track down a used one. I may have a lead on one, although I'll believe it when I see it!
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

76eldo

It makes no sense to me that doubling up any of these circuits can create heat and melt lenses.

You are drawing from the same 12 volts that the car is producing through the battery or the generator.  You are not increasing the voltage.  Every circuit is pulling 12 volts through the fuse or breaker it is connected to.

12 volts is the constant, and the bulb draws what it draws.  The only thing that can create heat would be using too light of a gauge of wire, and the wire would get hot, not the bulb.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Glen

You are correct Brian, only the part of the circuit that is “doubled up” would be likely to have any problems. 

The reason for having separate wires to the switch is to isolate the individual circuits.  There is a way to do that and still double up the wires so you could use a 3 wire switch. 

The way to do that is with diodes.  The first thing to do is to use a meter and measure the amps each circuit draws.  Once you have that you then know what diode to use. 

It would be best to select the two wires with the lowest amps draw.  Splice a diode into each wire a few inches back from the switch, then double up those wires at the switch.  The diodes will keep the circuits isolated. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

76eldo

Glen,

I am familiar with diodes.

I guess my question is why is there a problem here in jumping some simple lighting circuits together.

There certainly is no electronics in the switch, it's function just provides a path to ground.  Ground it a common on the entire vehicle.   If I were trying this, I would ground each wire individually to see what lights up.  Door courtesy lights, on the Eldo, the door and side panel lights, and a dome light?

If we are just turning on lights I don't see an issue by combining them if they all come on together anyway.

Mine work so hopefully I will not need to figure this out on my car.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

rwchatham CLC 21892

The purpose of the 4 pin switch was to allow all the circuits to light when the door was opened but still allow them to be kept separate for when they were turned on by other sources such as your map light switch , dome light switch etc. That way when the door was opened the circuits would all light but when turned on manually only that circuit is in operation. Putting the wires on one circuit would not cause the bulbs to overheat  the plastic,  the use of the wrong bulbs and use over time causes this.   You can easily tie the wires together as long as there is a diode installed in each circuit as mentioned. Its a inexpensive and easy fix. It allows all the circuits to work together when the jamb switch is activated and still remain separate when used individually. Have done it on numerous cars without any problems. It allows you to replace your sticking and  inop switch with a brand new smooth working switch . 
R. Waligora

76eldo

Ahhh

Makes perfect sense.

Now I get it.  It's as if A light bulb just turned on in my head...

Brian

PS... The diodes have polarity and act as a one way valve for current so if you add them you have to make sure they are wired in correctly.
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

rwchatham CLC 21892

Brian, exactly, just like one way check valves.
R. Waligora