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1956 series 62 stored 40 yrs.

Started by brokenwrench, July 31, 2015, 12:13:26 PM

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brokenwrench

I got a 56 coupe one owner w/52K on it. It is 100% original as far as I can tell, out of 40 year storage and am trying to get it running. Original owners son say's it was driven into storage and was in daily operation until his fathers death. I replaced belts,hoses and did a complete ignition tune up. Shot penetrating oil in the cylinders. After a week of spraying oil in it I put a battery in cleaned the cable ends and it spins over but slow (sounds like a 6 volt system). I have compression and spark is on time,firing order is correct. I pulled the starter and had the local auto electric guys rehab it. I replaced both the ground cables and the battery cable to starter but only a very slight improvement.
  A friend has a tool that when I remove the distributor I can spin the oil pump with a drill to prime the motor before starting. That is my next move.
Here are my questions. Could dry wrist pins and other bearings make it drag that bad (,the oil pump is working) and it has clean oil and filter. Will turning it with the starter do the same thing? 15 seconds at a time of course.  I've been 3 days running the starter back and fourth to auto electric (the rehabbed starter was sticking engaged and I had to pull the cable to stop it, 3 solenoids later it works like it did to start with. I checked the starter and it has the correct numbers on it for my car #1107657 was used from May of 56 to 1960 models.
  Anyone who has a suggestion please feel free to put me out of my misery before I pull out this last hair! Oh, and I failed to mention the Rochester 4-jet carb has been rebuilt  and I cleaned the tank and fuel lines,the fuel pump is good also.  I have a 72 coupe that I got running out of 6 years storage and it turns over twice as fast as the 56. Thanks,,B

J. Gomez

If the engine was not started in 40 years after storage as you mention, soaking the cylinders with penetrating oil was a good step. However, cranking the engine with the starter was not a good practice, one will never know what could be linger inside the engine.

Best practice (as I was told by an old mechanic) to get an old engine after long time in storage (years that is);

Change all the fluids.

Prime the oil pump and verify you have pressure and oil is flowing.

Removed all the plugs.

Slowly crank the engine by hand, just to feel if there is any binding or obstructions while cranking.

When everything is all checked and verify electrical, fuel, etc. then you can try to get it going with the starter and check compression on each cylinder.

With fresh fuel, good electric, good plugs, points, etc. and cross finger it should start right up..!

Not sure if you had a chance to hand crank yours without the plugs and get the oil pump prime and pressure verify.

Just a friendly tech tip..!

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

James Landi

If you have compression and spark and gas, and the engine is turning much too slowly, you might have a problem with the main positive cable having a high level of resistance (the internal wire is shot but the outer casing l00ks fine)--- connect your volt meter to the positive on the battery and on the starter... there should be NO voltage if the cable is good).  The fact that you're burning solenoids tends to support that theory... that being, the voltage actually getting to the starter is much too low, so you've lots of heat.  Another issue that might drag the motor is the lifter gallery.  If the hydrolytic lifters bores are rusted, your camshaft could be encountering a bunch of resistance there--- just some thoughts.   James

Jon S

Agree with most of the comments.  How does it crank with all of the plugs removed?  These cars did not crank as quickly as the late 50's on up Cadillacs when new.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Bobby B

Quote from: J. Gomez on July 31, 2015, 05:36:15 PM
If the engine was not started in 40 years after storage as you mention, soaking the cylinders with penetrating oil was a good step. However, cranking the engine with the starter was not a good practice, one will never know what could be linger inside the engine.


Removed all the plugs.
Not sure if you had a chance to hand crank yours without the plugs and get the oil pump prime and pressure verify.



  Hi…Good advice in the above posts. I would never try using the starter to turn over an engine that has been sitting that long. Plugs out and valve covers off, I would've first tried turning over with a breaker bar to verify (by sight) that everything is rotating properly in sequence, before attempting to crank the engine over with the starter.  James has pointed out the fact that the starter motor is not getting enough juice. That engine must be pretty tight to be cranking like you say it is. Usually on a fresh rebuild when everything is tight, it gets pretty difficult to turn the engine over by hand with a breaker bar by the time all the components are completely installed. Once you hook it up to the starter though, it usually rotates pretty smoothly. My guess is that if you're having that much trouble with the starter, you need to verify a few things first. Pull the plugs, take off  the valve covers, and check it all out cranking by hand. If it's all good, your next step is in the electrical department, looking at the battery condition, starter motor, and cables. Having a substitute known working starter would help. I use nothing smaller that #2 gauge battery cables for all my classic cars. Did you feel the battery cables when cranking to see if they were warm?  Do you have a good DC Amprobe to check starter motor cranking amperage? Don't go any further with the cranking until you do a visual inspection of your upper end first. Hope this helps.
                                                Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

brokenwrench

Thanks for all the comments. Electrical is not the problem. I have a new battery,cables ( the auto electric store uses heavy gauge welding cable) both ground and hot with new ends on both, and rebuilt starter. I didn't have a solenoid problem until they changed it at the auto electric shop. They finally used a better quality one on the 3rd try and it is no longer sticking engaged when the key is turned off.
I did think about a breaker bar on the crank, but was worried that the bolt head might break off as you don't get much leverage at the crank so I chickened out,lol. I was thinking better leverage on the flywheel.
I think the motor is in good shape as the oil bath air filter was in place and the inside of the carb looked nice and clean. The motor was not stuck and the inside of the cylinders look good as well. I didn't even think about the lifter bores being dirty.

I'm going to pull the valve covers and distributor and use my friends tool to prime it by spinning the oil pump with a drill motor. I'll post the result  Thanks again everybody.

Bobby B

Good deal. Keep us posted……
                            Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Smedly

#7
This may be a stupid question but have you looked down the carb and worked the throttle linkage to make sure the carb is actually putting gas into the intake? Have you tried pouring a little gas directly down the carb?  A little trick I was thought many years ago for after you get it running is to  remove the air cleaner and have the engine running, rev the engine using the linkage and "SLOWLY" pour a litre of automatic trans fluid into the carb revving the engine so it does not stall and pouring very slow so to don't Hydro lock a cylinder or pop a head gasket. It should take about 2-3 minutes to pour the litre. this will lubricate and clean valves aswell as burn off carbon. I have done this on several motors after they have sat for years, they all ran well after. I usually do this within the first 2-3 minutes of firing them the first time. I am not 100% sure that it helps but the old timmer who told me this trick sweared by it.
When a Doctor "saves a Life" it does not necessarily mean that that life will ever be the same as it was, but he still saved it. My 46 may not be as it was but it is still alive.
Sheldon Hay

cadman56

You mentioned you installed a new battery.  In all of my 56's through all my years I always used a Group 3ET battery.  I think the original specs were for a Group 3EE.  You get more Cold Cranking Amps with the 3ET.  I always installed the negative ground strap directly under one of the starter mounting bolts.
Check battery voltage while cranking.  After priming the oil pump it still may crank slow, those old Jet Away trannys turned hard.
All other advice above is good. 
Make sure to see if oil comes out of all rocker arms, it takes awhile to fill the rocker arm shafts with oil.  Those shafts tended to sludge up & that is where all the oiling on the top side comes from.
Good luck, I love those 56's.  Larry
1956 Cadillac Coupe deVille (sold)
1956 Cadillac Convertible (sold)
1956 Cadillac Eldorado Seville (sold)
1967 Cadillac Eldorado (sold)
1968 Cadillac Convertible (Sold)
1991 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham dElegance
Larry Blanchard CLC #5820

Rod Dahlgren #19496

Some thoughts bring up past findings I will share here---

DRY valve guides and a few passes up and down and they seize--- So LUBE them up before cranking--- Rockers and shafts high and dry for YEARS will SIEZE and bend push rods---  AND this one is for you non-believers: HOT DRY Storage of a 7 car find I made a few years ago caused all kinds of problems.. ONE ENGINE on a low mile car was stuck solid-- tried all the usual things to get in unstuck- It was just very very TIGHT- Finally puled it apart and here is what I we determined, crank case oil had been so HOT from the ground (sand floor inside the metal storage building) was so HOT for YEARS cooking the engine oil, the vapors loaded up the cylinders with sticky oil. There was nothing "wrong" with the engine that could not be fixed with a total cleaning of every internal part. Other things all the cars had were totally shot tires, rotten beyond help, seized brake systems, totally plugged brake lines. gas tanks in terrible condition. None of the other engines required a tear-down. 
Did You Drive Your Cadillac Today?