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'59 Hydramatic slips cold after rebuild

Started by pocale, August 25, 2015, 12:00:37 PM

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pocale

Hi,

I just finished a Hydramatic rebuild for my friend's '59 4D Cadillac.
The original problem was missing 4th gear.

The transmission has new seals, frictions and selected bushings.

Now, after rebuild, we have 4th, but the transmission slips when cold,
also cold you can hear a slight whining noise coming from the tranny.
Slips both fwd and reverse to get her going. maybe more at reverse. 
Soon when warmed up it works like a charm,
all gears are there and transmission feels tight.

This is my first Hydramatic rebuild, however done tens of other Automatics.
And, although the Hydramatic was a bit of brain-puzzle, there was nothing
in putting it together that i think went wrong. Of course it is possible.

ATF is Shell Spirax Type A. How thick is this stuff cold - might regular Dexron2/3
work better? What might be the root-cause problem?

Thanks in advance for any help.

V8, A/T, RWD - other options are negotiable

Jon S

Couldn't find Shell Spirax Type A; just Shell Spirax Type F.  I would use Dexron III as that is the correct friction coefficient for that transmission.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

TJ Hopland

Spriax S2 A?    The Shell chart lists that as a standard grade axle lubricant with a GL-5 approval.   Hopefully that is not what you used,  I'm guessing that stuff is nothing like ATF.   

Their chart lists Spriax S2 ATF D2 as the Dexron 2 and S3 ATF MD3 as Dexron 3 Mercon.  I see references to older fluids like an S1 ATF type F and TASA but they don't appear to be current or at least current in USA unless they are really hiding all references to em.

Every older transmission I have had rebuilt the shops have always said to use Dexron 3.   This includes old Fords and the 57 Hydro I just had done.   They said stay away from the newer stuff like dex6 unless its something that came from the factory with it.         
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

wbdeford

Dexron III in my '58 and works great.  Verify correct fluid level.  It should be checked with the engine running--with the engine off, it will appear to be higher than it really is.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

Dan LeBlanc

The proper procedure for checking fluid level in a Hydramatic is as follows.

Start car when cold and run at 800rpm for 1 1/2 minutes
Drop car out of high idle
Cycle car through all gears to ensure all pumps and couplings are full
Place car into park
Check fluid level, correct if necessary.

It's not like a modern car where the fluid is checked when hot.  If your fluid level is being checked when hot, because transmission fluid expands when hot, you'll get a false reading.

At least that's the procedure explained in the 61 shop manual.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

pocale

#5
Thanks for all the replies and help.

The owner read somewhere TYPE A is the right stuff for Hydramatic,
and purchased a bucket of this somewhere here in Finland (Northern Europe).



As said, i don't have that much experience with Hydramatics to judge the information he found about the proper fluid.

He lifted up the transmission back there himself and checked the fluid level.
I trusted he knows how to check the fluid level properly enough.
Had a short test drive monday though, to notice it slips cold and works warmed up.

The car will be to my garage tomorrow for a closer view.
I'll change the ATF to Dexron3 and follow the given instructions to check the level.
I'll drop the pan too to  drain the fluid and ensure the filter is sitting tight.
Might also screw out and take a look at the pressure regulator, since it is accessible
externally.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks again.
V8, A/T, RWD - other options are negotiable

wbdeford

#6
The dipstick says Type A.  If today's Type A is the same as 1959 Type A, it should be fine, though if it were my car, I'd change over to Dexron III.  Sounds like low fluid level to me.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

wbdeford

Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on August 26, 2015, 11:56:23 AM
The proper procedure for checking fluid level in a Hydramatic is as follows.

Start car when cold and run at 800rpm for 1 1/2 minutes
Drop car out of high idle
Cycle car through all gears to ensure all pumps and couplings are full
Place car into park
Check fluid level, correct if necessary.

It's not like a modern car where the fluid is checked when hot.  If your fluid level is being checked when hot, because transmission fluid expands when hot, you'll get a false reading.

At least that's the procedure explained in the 61 shop manual.

The 59 manual does not specify cold.  I would assume, then, that if it registers Full when hot, that a 59 will at least be above the Add line when cold.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville