Need help on a 1961

[STS05lg]

I could use your alls expert assistance. I am going to look at a 1961 six window sedan for an associate who found the car and he overestimates my knowledge base. My knowledge is limited to 1974-1976 Cadillacs. I could really use your all's help. The link is below. It appears to oringially Rosewood but the interior i am not sure of. From the pictures what should i look closely at. Any help would be appricated.

http://www.autoseastclassics.com/vehicle_pages/61l101876-1961-cadillac-deville-used-madison-va.shtml

Thanks,

Lynn

[Scot Minesinger]

I typed this long thing and then accidentally erased it - call me tomorrow after 1pm tomorrow.  The big thing is to get it on a lift.  I think you would be fine for this assignment.

[Glen]

It’s been a long time since I had my 61 coupe, but the two things that jumped out at me was the car originally did not have A/C.  A factory system had the vents in the dash, this one they are below the dash.  What’s in there now is an after market system. 

Also the master cylinder (and probably the booster) is not original. 

[Dan LeBlanc]

It doesn't appear to be a terrible example of a 61.

Depends on what your friend is looking to do with it.  If they're looking for a weekend cruiser and plan on attending local car shows with it, it is very presentable for that purpose.  If they're looking for an AACA/CLC senior car, this is not it.

That said, I'm in agreement with what Glen has already said.  Someone has done a dual circuit master cylinder conversion and put a larger brake booster on it and an aftermarket a/c system.  Not bad upgrades and things could be neatened up in the engine compartment to make it nice.  Check the upholstery carefully - the cloth inserts have been done.  Check to see if they did the cloth only or replaced the leather with vinyl.  I would assume the latter is the case as well.

Headliner may be original.

It's hard to tell if the carpet has been replaced or not.  On my screen it looks like it may be loop pile, but if it's cut pile, it's been replaced.

Once again, all in what the prospective buyer is looking for.  I can think of a lot worse examples of a 61 sedan for that sort of asking price.

[STS05lg]

Dan and Glen, thanks for the insights. Is there any thing I should look for with the brakes? I know it should have drums on all four corners. Likewise is the AC compressor mounted where it should be? All mine are over the front of the engine. He is looking for a weekend car not a CLC winner but will take it to local shows. Again thanks for all you help. Lynn

[Dan LeBlanc]

Just make sure the wheel cylinders are dry and there is no strange noises when applied. I think the brakes may be fine if someone went and converted to this setup.

The ac compressor location is fine. That's roughly where a stick one would be. I also see it has an alternator conversion likely to compensate for the ac and pusher fan. Idle it with the ac on and check to see if the fan engages and make sure it doesn't overheat. 3/8-1/2 way up on the temperature gauge is the normal operating range on these cars.

[Dan LeBlanc]

For comparison sake, here is another example of a 61 sedan with factory air and doesn't appear to have been molested for $2000 more. The black and white Interior is a better combination, and, the factory ac when working properly will work better than the aftermarket unit on the car he is considering. My money would be on this one, honestly.

[Andrew Trout]

The passenger door mirror is not stock either.

The engine and engine bay looks like it's received some paint work as well, probably when the new radiator and alternator were put in.

[Chas]

Any possibility it's a Short Deck Town Sedan? Looks a tad odd to my eye.

[Caddyholic]

Any possibility it's a Short Deck Town Sedan? Looks a tad odd to my eye.

Cowl tag says 6329 it is a sedan deville 6 window

[Coupe Deville]

Still nicer then my 61' Sedan Deville! hahaha..

-Gavin

[Dan LeBlanc]

For comparison sake, here is another example of a 61 sedan with factory air and doesn't appear to have been molested for $2000 more. The black and white Interior is a better combination, and, the factory ac when working properly will work better than the aftermarket unit on the car he is considering. My money would be on this one, honestly.

Just realized I forgot to post the link to the car I was talking about.
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=141789130246&alt=web

[STS05lg]

Everyone, thanks for the help.
It was a perfect day for a drive in the country so I cut out of the office a little early and took the Jennifer Blue 75 for a 100 mile drive in the country to check out the 61. Overall it is not a bad local (central Virginia) two owner car. However, the car was not undercoated when new and earlier in its life it was exposed to rock salt in winter on local roads. But she is over 50 years old so one must take that into consideration.
Dan, FYI, the cloth inserts were sewn into the original leather trim. The leather while aged was not torn. The carpet is the original loop pile and was really worn (as would be expected). It was starting to deteriorate as the loops were coming apart from where the interior was vacuumed. Headliner was original and had not fallen. However the ceiling courtesy lights did work and the bulbs had been replaced, I would say 50+ year old wires. The car ran good, had good pickup and moved away from stop lights well. The A/C compressor keep cycling, I could tell by the off and on power surge as I was driving. Temperature never went above ½ but don’t know the accuracy of the reading. However when parked the engine did not seem to be that hot. However, the weather was a cool dry 65 degrees F and sunny. Perfect weather for driving an old car…
Scott, you were correct to check the under body. The car was not undercoated when new. The floor board were original and paper thin (I taped on the passenger side and almost put a hole in it (you break it you buy it). Likewise the entire underside of the car had been spray painted with rust-o-lum. Trunk floor from the underside was better but was deteriorating at the seams. Again for local car for over 50+ years age and no undercoat and no Zebart she held up pretty well.
Bumper chrome was good for the age but the steel behind was going fast. Likewise there were signs of leaks around the rear window. Rear shelf was original with numerous water stains and turning to dust (dry rot).
Art, you are correct; $12.5K is too high for this car. If it was for me I would give $5-$6K, because it will take $10K to stabilize the car and begin to bring her back.
One thing that surprised me was the power windows and power seat worked and the darn if the radio not only worked but did not sound bad for an AM radio…
I am going to recommend that Joe pass on this one, I told him to look at the 61 in Florida. From the pictures on the link Dan sent it was a much nicer car…
Well that is the sum of my trip to see the 61, Dan, Art, Chris, Scott thanks again for all your help….
Best,
Lynn

[Scot Minesinger]

Lynn,

Sounds right to me.  That recent aftermarket compressor addition is controlled by refrigeration pressure, and it cycles on and off.  Certainly destructive to the compressor on a day like yesterday; on/off on the highway.  The white Caddy Dan posted looked way better and it would cost more than the price of it (more than 15k), to bring the Caddy you looked at to the condition of the white one.

Antique car buying is more an opportunity than a search.  If your friend is dead set on a 61, it may take a while due to travel and all.  If he is interested in an older cool 60's Caddy, call Tom Alsop - he is selling his 1968 Cadillac with 45k original miles.  It runs very well and the a/c works - no rust.  It won president's preservation in GN 2014 in NY. 

Scot