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71 Eldo: Which Bushings to Buy

Started by wbdeford, November 11, 2015, 06:54:25 AM

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wbdeford

Does anyone have recommendations as to which upper and lower control arm bushings I should buy?

1) Some are sold as "kits".  What exactly is meant by a bushing "kit"?
2) Some of them show pictures of two bushings plus 4 large washers.  There were no washers on the ones I removed, so what is that about?
3) Some of them reference "additional + camber adjustment".  Any value in that?

e.g. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=203131&cc=1025851&jnid=428&jpid=14
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

Scot Minesinger

Was hoping you would get some replies, so this is not exactly what you seek, but hope this helps.

The 1972 Eldorado that I just finished included a full front suspension restore and I bought the upper and lower control arm bushings.  Because there is nothing worse than being all ready to install the new parts and they are wrong, I purchased them from USA Parts Supply (they are most likely to have correct part for a mild premium).  However they did not have the lower control arm bushings so they gave me the MOOGE number and bought those on Rockauto. 

Look at the front engine mount Rockauto sells for your car, and it is wrong (it is for a RWD).  Going back to this age, sometimes Rockauto gets it wrong.  I would seek out some trusted Cadillac parts sellers that are sure to provide the correct part if unsure.  However, Rockauto does have the right parts, just a matter of making sure it is correct.

I will try to find the bushing models from Rockauto.  Also, you will likely need to replace the lower control arm bushing bolts (4 required), I bought mine from Fastenal.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

wbdeford

Thanks, Scott.  I am in no hurry at all, so if I get the wrong part the first time, no biggie.  Yeah, I think I need new lower control arm bolts :)  Thanks for the tip on those!  I was thinking I could just find the right size and grade bolts at a hardware store and they would be fine.  You see any issue with doing that?
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

Scot Minesinger

It will be unusual if a local hardware store has the right bolts, length, grade and etc. at least in my area.  I would get them at an on-line fastener supplier, way better selections.  The cost of delivery will be low as it ships in an envelope or Priority US mail.  If an area hardware store has the bolts, it is fine to buy them locally.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

wbdeford

Maybe I should ask it this way.....if I go with the lowest priced ones, will I regret it?
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

Scot Minesinger

Heck yes you will regret buying cheap bolts!!!! Do not buy the cheapest bolts!!!!!  I would curse for emphasis, but everything you type the world sees. 

This is a vital suspension component and a failure may cause a serious accident.  I spent the extra $3 for all four and got the full diameter (not necked down in center) grade 8 bolts.  Never cheap out on fasteners that are critical to safety.  It is OK to buy less expensive fasteners on less critical items such as a/c clip anchors. 
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

wbdeford

Sorry, I meant the lowest priced bushings, not bolts.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

Scot Minesinger

On bushings I would buy a name brand recognized and trusted.  The labor and trouble to replace them far outweighs any cost savings.  Mooge and others would be good.  I'm so sick of reproduction parts not working out I would pay double for the part if it came with a labor warranty.  Generally on the really critical parts, such as ball joints, suspension bushings, brakes and such these seem to be way less failure rates than say less critical items like alternators.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

wbdeford

AC Delco has reasonably priced uppers--will probably go with those.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

wbdeford

Caddy Daddy took themselves out of the running to sell me front end parts....they wouldn't tell me who the manufacturer is.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

Scot Minesinger

Dug out my records for the 72 Caddy that enjoyed a full front suspension restore:

Lower control arm bolts are Fastenal part number 0137838.

Rockauto control arm bushing is MOOG Part number K5222 (not sure if upper or lower (lower I think), USA Parts was out of stock at time)

USA parts:  6.165D upper (sold as pair) @ $39.42 each pair = $78.84 for both sides
                  6.175D lower (each) $39.89 =                             $159.56 for both sides

Hope this helps.

BTW the KM bushing remove tool was not strong enough to press lower control arm bushings out, that was like a tinker toy hammer trying to drive a rail wood spike.

Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

wbdeford

Thanks, Scot, for the info!

I used the Autozone loaner ball joint press.  I set the bushings on fire to melt away some of the excess rubber and loosen up some of the rust, then sprayed them with penetrating oil.  Still, it being my first time pressing out bushings, I didn't know if I was succeeding or breaking the control arm until the bushings popped after I s-l-o-w-l-y cranked down on it.  All the way down to the very last of the 8, I was still not 100% comfortable that nothing bad would happen.  The tool was strong enough for the task, though I wouldn't say "with strength to spare".  There wasn't quite enough clearance to do it exactly as designed, so I had to improvise a bit.

I also have to decide what to do about the ball joints.  The originals seem fine, and I like to keep things as original as possible, but it's a lot of work to replace them if they fail later, especially the lower ones.  Is there a way to test them while off the car?  I know I should have checked them before disassembly, but too late for that.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

Scot Minesinger

The upper ball joints tend to hold up well and the lower ones are not quite as durable.  I replaced all four on the 72 Eldorado because your right, it is a job best done now.  The lower ball joints had the rubber protector compromised and so I could not be sure if they were not going to fail in the near future. 

The 72 Eldorado ball joints were rived in and had to really add some force to get them removed.  I ground off the heads and used a punch and a sledge to remove them.  Did not want to drill out rivet for fear of marring up the arm where rivet penetrates it.

Check out the fine condition of this lower control arm after I got the bushings and ball joint out, looks like it has 90% of the original factory paint.  Second picture is of it repainted, hanging to dry.  I took a lot of ribbing for putting all this work into the car, but the extreme rust free status just made it worth it.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

wbdeford

I decided to go with Moog all around.  Cost me $47.15 for one pair of lowers and $51.30 for the other (1st seller only had one pair).  Got all four uppers for $33.10.

Even though I was able to improvise with the Autozone loaner tool to press out the old ones, the same tool does not have the clearance to effectively press in the new ones, especially the lowers.  I tried to do it anyway on the uppers, but it just wouldn't line up properly, so I decided to take them to a guy at a local shop.  He is installing them for $40-$50.

So, roughly $180 for new 8 new bushings installed.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville