Pertronix install

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

I am going to install a Pertronix I in my 70 Deville. I have read several threads but didn't see an all-in-one.
Where is a good place to tap into the resistor wire? Is it accessable in the engine compartment?
Is it really necessary to pull the distributor?  Any other advice?
Thanks.
Jeff

[Chuck Swanson]

Not sure if you purchased yet, but if you get the breakerless www.lectriclimited.com/breakerless_se_mainpage.htm
you won't see the extra wire, and it will look 100% original.  I have used both and I think prices are close. 

Instructions were detailed and took me around 30 mins to install.  Chuck

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

I already got the Petronix one. My plan is to wrap the wires in heat shrink so the second wire won't be that visable.
Did you yank the distributor to install?
Jeff

[Scot Minesinger]

Jeff,

There is a video on line (google it) on how to install this.  The purpose is for spacing.  If you have correct spacing then the distributor does not need to be pulled.  Mine was installed ten years ago on a replacement distributor and had to pull it.  Mark the rotor position real good and the position of base of distributor to block before pulling and you will be able to get it installed exactly as it was before you pulled it.  You still should re-set timing anyway.

I'm going to convert my 1970 SDV with 35k miles to this before year end too just for less maintenance considerations.  It does not really make the car run better.

[76eldo]

I must be an oddball when it comes to Pertronix or similar systems.

I like older cars because they don't have electronic stuff that can malfunction.
I've driven cars with points and condensers since before electronic ignition was installed on cars in the 70's  I've never broken down in a car with points due to an ignition failure but I have had an 85 Eldo strand me when the ignition module decided to quit working.

Why would you want to install electronics in a car that runs perfectly fine on points instead of maybe keeping a spare set of points and a condenser in your glove box?

Brian

[Scot Minesinger]

Brian,

The reason I do it is because the quality of points and condensers is low.  Granted "Bluestreak" is highly regarded, but the quality of the Pertronix is good, and there are cheap copy cats out there of that too. 

You are right a good set of points and condenser and the car runs same as electronic - no difference to me.  The other advantage of points and condenser is that in the unfortunate event of a an EMP the car will still run.

I will have to change my points and condenser every 12k miles (about every three years) and with Pertronix will not have to.  It is a toss up for me, just leaning slightly toward the Pertronix.

[TJ Hopland]

My only tip is take timing readings before you change anything.  If you can take readings at various rpms and write em down.   That way right or wrong you will know where you started and have a place to return to if things don't make sense later.   I read all the time about people that had a good running engine and converted then could not get it to run again.   Things like incorrect timing marks can get you.   

IF you do remove the distributor just mark where the rotor is before you lift it and put it back in the same spot.    I also mark where it ends up as you lift it since it turns as you lift.   If you can mark where it needs to be before it drops it may save you some time and you will have a better chance of it dropping in the right place.    Screwing around trying to get things to #1 just seems to make things more confusing.  If you don't move the engine when its out as long as you get it back to the same place it won't matter where that place is.

The quality of the current points and condensers is the reason I would convert too.   Blue Streak has been good for me too but I don't have a lot of faith that they will remain that way.   The rest of the formerly good names are now crap so its likely only a matter of time.     

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Well, here is why.
When I got the car, I replaced the points and condenser.  Didn't run so I put the old ones back on and it ran.  Got a good quality set and it ran.
Fast forward to my Xmas present for the next 10 years (I call it an engine rebuild). Original distributor damaged when removed so got a rebuilt with another set.  Didn't run.  Put the old ones back in and it ran OK.
Hit a massive puddle at night and soaked the engine compartment.  Shorted out the condenser.  Replaced again.  It lasted about 100 miles or so and the new one died in my driveway.  Put in another good quality set and it runs OK. I have had better luck with the cheap ones than the expensive.. But the cheap ones died too.
Bottom line is I have no confidence in them.  All of this in about 4K miles.  Enough is enough.
I have a hesitation and I think it's carb related.  However I can't be certain that it isn't another condenser getting flaky. 
I have no confidence in it.
By the time I get another expensive set, I am in over half of a Petronix.  I figured might as well. 
Before I read this, I had already pulled the distributor out.  I had marked it well as everyone suggested.  I did have to add shims at the bottom so it needed to come out anyway.  Went in OK and all marks line up.
Now I need to do electrical.  Where did everyone pull their power? 
Going to take a break now and do leaves, but will get back to it later tonite.

I agree that points are the way to go. I also agree that electronic is the way to go.
Jeff

[76eldo]

Jeff,

I never had problems like that with any of my cars.
Once you change to Pertronix I hope it works out for you but you may still have something else going on.

Brian

[55 cadi]

Points are great and work, but do fail and have to be replaced semi often.

I had a 66 mustang and had to replace once a year until I got the pertronix and never had to touch after.

I then was having some issues with my Cadillac and again went to pertronix and have not had a problem since.

It is very easy to install, takes 10-15 minutes, and you use original resistor for power.

I went so far as to use pertronix coil and wires, probably didn't need to but did anyway.

It is a replacement that if you want to go back to original it is easy and takes 10-15 minutes to put back, and does not do any damage or change anything.

If you install pertronix and still have problems, then like Jeff said, start looking somewhere else.

[Scot Minesinger]

Jeff,

Once you get it running as best as possible with the electronic ignition you can see if the hesitation remains.  Hesitation is usually carb related.  During engine rebuild did you get the carb get rebuilt too?  If not accelerator pump issue usually causes hesitation.  If you did get it rebuilt, to me carb rebuilders are like condensers that you have been replacing - no good.  I buy the kits from Daytona including the float for like $60 including shipping, and it takes about four to five hours from removal to start up and adjust. 

If you have the hesitation after installing Pertronix and you plan to examine carb, no sense setting timing until carb is re-installed.

It is always something, last weekend had to replace my neutral safety switch to get my baby to start.  It would only start in neutral with a lot of coaxing.  Now I'm good for today.

Enjoy your Cadillac,

Scot

 

[chrisntam]

Hi Jeff, I replied at the other site, seems you share time at both places, though I find the action here to be much more responsive!

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Yep, this site is the best......

[Coupe Deville]

Since you have a 472, I wouldn't hesitate to install a genuine GM H.E.I distributor if you haven't installed the pertronixs already. They don't look misplaced in the engine bay and they are better then pertronixs in my opinion because they were actually designed road tested and used for this application 472/500. I did the swap in my 72' and it was great. very simple, and showed improvement in power and mpg. I can post pictures if you want.

Best of luck

-Gavin

[Jason Edge]

I would steer clear of the Ignitor I and go for the II or III. II has significant advantages over I, and III has advantages over II.  You can see comparisons of the what each offers on the Petronix site at http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/default.aspx. A big advantage of the II over the I is that it senses incorrectly wiring or a "key left on" condition and shuts down the system protecting the coil and other components from damage. 

I ran the Pertronix Ignitor II and the Flamethrower II coil for years, and then switched to the III series when I rebuilt my 1964 CDV 429 in 2012 and have never had to touch the unit as it works perfect. Neat thing is it sits under the stock looking distributor cap, and opted for the stock looking black coil.

You can get the II series from Summit Racing for $115 and the III Series for about $131. 

[Scot Minesinger]

Gavin,

The Pertronix is already purchased. 

I had a GM electronic ignition unit from 1975 (installed before I bought car) in my 1970 Caddy originally and the issue is it larger - just barley fit.  The belt for PS just rubbed outside of dist. cap and there was less room to adjust timing.  The timing was always a little off so switched to Pertronix.  Understand that with 73 and older 500 due to belts and pulleys will not work unless you change the pulleys.

The belt set up for 1970 w/472 engine is unique because no smog pump, the 68, 69, 71, 72, 73, and 74 included smog pumps.

What other site?

[chrisntam]

What other site?

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/classic-cadillac-forum/

Over there, sometimes there can be nearly 100 views before someone chimes in.  I have referred numerous posters from there to here recently. Obviously, the posters need answers and they're not getting any.  There's one post where a guy is thinking about buying a '55 coupe and asking questions prior to purchase.  It would be answered in about 5 minutes here.  I'm surprised the mods there haven't sent me a warning or something....

chris.

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

I had it running by hotwiring the peteonix. I will work on the wiring later. Had to do leaves and then xmas lights yestetday afternoon.
Later, i will take the trash out...... Ugh. Hate having unfinished projects.
Jeff

[rustytractor]

When I was having problems getting my '62 to run properly I bought a Pertronix. When fitted no matter what I did I couldn't get it to run. Tried everything Inc hotwiring it to get 12v but still no use. Maybe I misunderstood how to do the clearance adjustment (I hold my hands up here and admit I found it badly explained and pretty confusing) so went back to a new set of bluestreak points and condenser.

The car then ran fine but I still want to find out whether the Pertronix unit was faulty or if I'm just stupid.

If I was a betting man I'd bet on the latter......

[55 cadi]

Well a lot of products come bad out of the box new.

So It very well could be a bad unit, these are very simple to install, not much to them.

Even condensers, and other parts are bad from the start.