Better '70 Fleetwood - can anyone offer opinions?

[J.C.]

Okay, the '70 Fleetwood on eBay wasn't the best example.  I found a better car and the seller sent these pictures.  What do you think?

[J.C.]

I was told that the car has about 35,000 original miles on it.  I was actually told that the car used to be owned by a "little old lady who only drove it to church on Sundays and to buy groceries."  I mean no disrespect - the seller may be reading this - and I am considering the car, but, well, it's not like someone selling a used car has never told a story like that to a prospective buyer...   

[Series75]

John, I've looked at both.   I bid on the eBay listing.   The seller is a poor communicator, draws concern.   Here's the major consideration....I know the interior is beautiful but have you considered the delicate nature of a near 50yr old fabric?   Once a seam separation occurs, or the first tear opens on the drivers seat the value of the car and the actual ability to sell it becomes a HUGE concern.   If there were splits in the seats would you even be considering?   It's going to happen, just who is going to be the unlucky owner.   Stick to leather, easier to repair, less cost better result, and easier to
Live with.    Tom CLC 6866

[Scot Minesinger]

John,

If I was selling one of my cars, it would be great to advertise - no excuses, and trouble is most would not sell a car that really and truly needs nothing, and then there is the matter of you like a car.  I think that idea of anyone buying a car and investing nothing in it after is unlikely.

Here is hat I see:

1.  I cannot be sure that the top is original because the trim around halo section does not look like I would expect it to and that is OK, just be aware it may be a replacement top and a repaint.  If it was, ask for receipts.  If you get the receipts call repair place and ask if roof was rusted and if so how it was fixed.  If you cannot get the receipts, you can wrap on roof with knuckles lightly all over to hear/feel if it is uniform, knocking on front first which may not have been rusted to see if it sounds same as rear section of car.  The top looks nice almost too good to be true.  The top on my 1970 Cadillac is original and the seams on top have a slight wave, not steel ruler straight.

2.  The a/c has been converted over to R134 which is fine, but the device used to replace the POA is incorrect and worse will take out your compressor.  It cycles the compressor based on pressure.  Best is to buy a POA and have it installed, this is like a $500 repair. Before you do this, just unplug the compressor clutch elect connection unless it is real hot and you will be using a/c.  The device installed in place of POA will turn your compressor on and off 30 times a minute on a 60'F day driving on highway and it will receive years of wear in a single drive, and fail quickly.

3.  Cloth is OK.  Any 45 year old car with original upholstery is going to be delicate.  I have cloth in my 32k miles SDV and while there are no tears or splits and no sign that they will happen, the foam underneath is like plywood, and the seats are very uncomfortable.  I have to replace or repair them.  However, I do not have to do it tomorrow.  I may change to leather.

4.  Is this a dealer or private owner?  If dealer, I would get much more info.

This looks OK, and it may be worth further communications and trip over to drive and inspect.

 

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

The interior of the eBay car looks to be in nicer condition.

One other item I noticed is the roof moldings are painted body color which is incorrect. They should match the color of the vinyl roof material. Not a serious issue to rectify - assuming it stops there.

Underhood looks a bit better.

How much?

[J.C.]

How much?

He wants $11,000.

[J.C.]

Is this a dealer or private owner?

It's a private owner who says he's an inactive CLC member.

[Scot Minesinger]

John,

For a Fleetwood that looks this good in pictures with under 40k miles, and maybe has a few things we picked on sold by a private owner, you should take a look at it.  After all, cars mostly speak for themselves.  The trim around vinyl top could be painted only and the top original - you will probably know best when you look at it.  The trim around my vinyl top is showing signs of needing paint. 

A 1970 Cadillac in perfect mechanical repair drives better than many new cars today.  It supposed to rain for a week here in DC, so kind of disappointed that my Caddys will not see much road time during holidays when they normally do.

Now is a great time to buy, no one is thinking about buying a classic during holidays.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

He wants $11,000.

Again, far too aggressively priced for the car shown - in my view. Cadillac Fleetwood Broughams of this era need to be near pristine condition throughout long before having a prayer of entering 5-figure territory on the price ladder.  And for good measure, they should also be black.

[wrefakis]

C,mon Eric standing offer 20k for a pristine one no bump top and leather
happy holidays
bill
look what I got!

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Billy, if that's as nice as you said it is, I think even I could live with the Gotham Gold. 

That '70 must be close to the best on the planet.

Merry Christmas! 

[wrefakis]

I do not own a 70 Fleetwood but will pay all the way up for a 67 thru 70 with leather and bump free top, the 59 is a very nice original 42000 mile car chrome is nos car overall very very nice

[J.C.]

I ... will pay all the way up for a 67 thru 70 with leather and bump free top...

A far up is "all the way up?"  What's a car such as you've described really worth at the top end?

[J.C.]

Sorry, I meant:

How far up is "all the way up?"

[wrefakis]

I have never found one, so hard to say I have owned 70 converts with super low miles sedans and coupes as well but never a super clean fleetwood

[jwjohnson86]

Enjoying following the quest for another 1970!  Good luck searching. 

[Rich S]

I also think the '70 Fleetwood Brougham shown may merit further inspection. Regarding the vinyl top, the driver's side sail panel (C-Pillar) trim (riveted "wreath and crest" and "Brougham" script) is correctly positioned. The same on the passenger's side does not look correct. As mentioned, the "halo" trim is painted the body color, whereas it should be black like the vinyl top. Still, the car offered looks like it has been well cared for and the other trim pieces look present and correct.

As I mentioned in a previous post, here is a link to see the nicest '70 Fleetwood Brougham I have ever seen offered for sale (although I have no affiliation with the car, it's exterior appears completely "factory correct"):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSEdpUE4J94

Bill, that's a beautiful unaltered '59, too!

[R Schroeder]

I'm sorry, but I'm having a very hard time believing the mileage that is stated.
For 35,000 that front seat and carpet should look a lot better.
I have 27,000 on my 78 and the carpet and front seat look like new.
Roy

[Scot Minesinger]

I paid $5,500 for my 1970 SDV with 32k miles on it believed for sure to be original (do not have proof positive documents), but now ay could it have 132k miles).  The condition of the car justified the odometer reading (steering wheel, doors close correct, no wear on mechanical parts, and etc.).  The issues were that the brakes did not work well at all and everything was replaced, calipers pistons master cylinder, and even all the steel lines front to back.  Plus the car had some below the horizontal moldings on side of car dents that had to b e fixed, so the original pain is not in a few places below this molding, and the match work is very nice.  The fix dents and replace brakes work was like about $3,5000, so to get my car like this Fleetwood it was $9,000.  The car did have newer tires (super cheap, just purchased replacements).  I would have paid 2k more for a Fleetwood with 11k miles.  I think the price is OK if the car is as represented in pictures and has no mechanical issues - you will have to replace POA.

Since I bought the car it has undergone a complete mechanical restoration, which consists of replacing everything rubber, and I mean everything, plus timing chain and rocker cover gaskets and trans re-seal.  All the parts for this plus tire replacements with Diamond back was about $4,500, not counting my labor.  So now I am 13.5k all in.  You can drive this car to Alaska with no issues.  The seats need some work, as foam is rock hard, but no rips - photographs perfect.  I may make it my daily driver if Cadillac does not come up with a large RWD V-8 sedan soon.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I think at any rate that we're all in agreement that $11,000 for the '70 Fleetwood is no bargain, at least on the surface of things.

Merry Christmas to all fellow CLC and CLC forum members!