How do I access the divider window in a 1941 limousine?

[Matt Harwood]

Hi guys. While it's not technically a Cadillac, I'm working on a 1941 Buick 90 Series limousine, which is the same as a Cadillac Series 67. I'm trying to get the divider window working--it clicks down there somewhere when I hit the switch, but it doesn't move. I'd like to take it apart and get at the guts of the thing and see if there's anything obviously amiss. However, I don't have the first clue how to get in there. Do I remove the front seat? Remove the garnish moldings up top? Nothing seems obvious and I don't want to just start tearing things apart without knowing what I'm doing. Sadly, the shop manual has exactly zero information on the 90 Series' special features, including the divider window.

And while we're on the subject, does anyone know how to remove the lenses and bezels for the courtesy lights at the base of the back seat? I pushed and pulled with my fingers and did some gentle prying with a screwdriver, but got nowhere. I'm guessing this is why all six bulbs are burned out--nobody else knew how to get in there, either.

Any help is much appreciated. Thank you!

[jwjohnson86]

I don't know, but what a beautiful car!  That dashboard is amazing.  Love to see a photo of the full length exterior and front/rear views.  I'm sure someone on this forum will have tips, this is decades earlier than my car.  Thanks for sharing and good luck.

[TonyZappone #2624]

I had the same problem with  '56 Derham limo.  Go down to the floor area and see if you can find where the motor is.  On the '56 it was under a piece of interior trim.  Put a towel over the area and whack it with a rubber hammer.  I got lucky, the motor began to work and kept working until I sold it. 

[gary griffin]

Your car looks a lot like my 1942-6719 and I am sure the  interior is about the same. I do not have the divider window or jump seats thankfully because they take about 4 inches from the leg room and I am tall needing all of the leg room I can get.

I have discussed the divider with Harry Scott who has a 1941 67 series with divider window and I have completely removed my upholstery expecting to get it back in the car in January.  My information is based on what i know from my car and my conversations with Harry Scott.

The front seat needs to be removed to access the divider window. The cap molding on the divider does not have to be disturbed.

The divider window is lifted by small winch with a very small motor similar to the under seat heater motors. It may need servicing or replacement?  It may also just need new cords on the winch. While you have it apart  be sure to clean up the cavity and properly lubricate all moving parts.  I can provide a picture of my seat area or it may be seen in my restoration blog with the rest of the pictures?

If you send me a P M through the club link with an e-mail address I will send any pictures you may need.

[Jeff Hansen]

Matt,

Attached is the service information on the divider window mechanism for 1941 and 1942 Cadillacs.  I am hoping Buick would be the same.  If the relays are clicking (there are two of them), you are getting juice.  May be a problem with the electric motor.  It is repairable.

To get at the mechanism, remove the front seat cushion.  From the other side of the divider wall, pull the jump seats out.  There might be an upholstery covered access panel there that is somehow snapped or screwed into place.  There is one there on a 75 series Cadillac but I have not looked at the business end of a series 67/Buick 90 so there may not be.  As Gary suggested, send an email to Harry Scott in Virginia (find one of his posts and click on his name on the left side of the screen to access his email address).  He's a really good man and I'm sure he can answer most of your questions.

HTH and Happy Holidays!
Jeff

[harry s]

Matt, Jeff's description for access on his 75 series is the same for the 67 series and hopefully your Buick. When I took mine apart the cable as seen in the instructions had broken and come off the pulleys. I was able to get a replacement along with the attaching hardware at Ace Hdw. The motor in mine did work but was weak and had to be sent out for a good cleaning which did the job. I found it easiest to take the assembly out of the car and string the parts along with checking all of the connections. With all of the work involved I'm almost afraid to use the divider. Jeff and Gary, thanks for the props, Matt, Good luck. Harry

[Matt Harwood]

That's all awesome information, thank you everyone! I get a click when I press the switches in one direction, but not the other (I forget which it is). If they're both doing the same thing, I'm betting it's the relay. It clicks, but nothing else happens, so hopefully I'll be able to divine what's going on in there without too much extra trouble. From Jeff's service bulletin, it seems like an easy enough mechanism and as long as the parts are intact, it should be serviceable.

Here are a few more photos of the car from before I bought it. I might have over-paid a bit for it, but I've always wanted a 90 Series 1941 Buick so there was an emotional component to the decision. I do like the big thing quite a bit and look forward to touring in it next summer. If you can overlook the fact that it sounds like a dump truck because of the cracked exhaust manifolds, it really runs well. I have replacement manifolds for which I paid a small fortune, and they'll be on the car next week. A little extra sorting and hopefully it'll be a great driver. Paint is probably 30 years old but the interior is spectacular, and that's really what sold me on the car. There's something about the rear compartment of these cars that perfectly embodies the period and the feeling of luxury in pre-war America. I've found myself just sitting back there, soaking it in, on a number of occasions.

At any rate, I'll post my results and take some photos along the way.

Have a great holiday, everyone!

[Matt Harwood]

Woo hoo! It works! I don't know why I didn't see the little access panel down at the base between the jump seats, but the seams on the upholstery were so tight and flush that it was virtually invisible from above. Once I had my head down at floor level, I spotted the seam and pulled it off and there was the whole works. I tweaked around with a few wires to see if anything was loose, and voila! It powered up and down properly. I wish I could claim that I did something brilliant, but it's obvious that someone was in there at some point in the past. There's a new power wire and some pretty hacky-looking wiring work that consists of some electrical tape, and, well, just some electrical tape. The window chatters a bit going up and down as well, so I might see if I can lubricate the tracks somehow, although this access panel doesn't give me any way of reaching those areas. I did pull the front seat just to see what was there, but there's another bulkhead between me and the window itself.

My first job is going to be getting all the electrical connections firmed up. My second project is cleaning and lubricating everything--any ideas? I thought I'd hose it down with brake cleaner to dissolve whatever's there (it's obviously pretty grimy), blow it off with air, then load it up with some heavy spray lubricant like the stuff for garage door cables. What would you guys recommend for cleaning and lubricating something like this?

I suppose I should savor the fact that today's projects were easy. It never really goes that way in the real world...

[jwjohnson86]

Great photos!  Thanks for posting and keep us updated on your progress.  I was trying to view these on my phone and I think I accidentally hit report to moderator, if so my apologies and please disregard.

[KD]

)n my 40  series 90 limo, it doesn't have a motorized window, but this is how you remove the trim. The window channel is screwed into the frame and the upper molding is attached with screws under  the window channel. Once that is removed the horizontal trim piece has 3 places that have a retainer clip that must be released , then it lifts up to remove it.
see the attached pics, I hope this helps
KD CLC#25801