News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

headliner removal 41 60 special

Started by mr41cadillac, February 01, 2016, 09:17:14 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mr41cadillac

im doing rewiring on 41 60 special. it has all original upholstery but I know I need to remove the headliner. question is if I remove it can it be saved ? thanks john

Steve Passmore

The short answer to that John is no, 99% of the time at least, More so with original frail material.   
Picture this John, when a headliner is fitted its pulled tightly into place on each side and stapled. All excess is then trimmed off just below the staple. When you release those staples it will pull away from you, disintegrate at the staple line and you just don't have enough material to hold on to anymore.
If its a 75 year old headliner or even not that old its now very fragile. All the linen hoop covers will disintegrate when handled and the wool will be so full of dust you will need breathing masks. 
People would ask me to attempt it many times throughout the 80s and 90s and it was so fraught with problems it was never successful, now I just don't bother.

My coupe had a newish one (20 years)and for the same reasons as you I had to remove it down one side for an unconnected dome light wire. It never went back up the same. Looked awful and in the end I had to replace the whole thing and that wasn't even 75 years old.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Paul Phillips

I would second Steve's experience. If your headliner is original, just removing the several hundred tacks involved will likely cause significant damage.  Stretching and steaming the original again is very high risk. You may well also need to replace the wind lace and wire-on trims for similar reasons. For best appearance you will want these and the headliner to be color matched, not one new and one faded.

This is a slippery slope - it is hard to stop at headliner and not do visors, B pillars, door cards, seats, rear deck, etc. Think about what you will be happy seeing original against the new materials.

Paul
Paul Phillips CLC#27214
1941 60 Special (6019S)
1949 60 Special (6069X)
1937 Packard Super 8 Convertible Victoria
1910 Oakland Model 24 Runabout

mr41cadillac

thanks. I had 2 other  ideas . 1.  I could  just run new wire on the floor straight to the rear tail lights etc, bypassing the overhead light and side seat lights but would preserve the headliner  etc as original. 2.  or maybe I could just bypass the overhead light but wire up the seat lights and rear tail lights etc. where they still work when the door opens. also maybe theres a way to fix the overhead light where it would work manually from batteries. these 2 ideas would preserve the original car.  nows the time to do this as I have seats and seat frame out and am doing over wiring.  please give me your ideas about my 2 ideas, good or bad thanks john

Paul Phillips

John
You probably could fabricate a custom harness to run fuel gauge, lights, turn signals and brake to the trunk, but the challenge there is routing.  The 60S has no provisions for running wiring on the floorboards, there are no natural channels to use as the shapes formed in the floors are all left-to-right forms.  I do not feel good about the ability to run the harness and not have it damaged over time in the driver's front floorboard area.  It will be especially narrow going by the front seat, and possibly hard to keep the carpet looking 'normal' with a harness poking up.  You will need to modify the metal surround base of the rear seat (the one that the lights are in and mounts to the floor) to route a harness between it and the floor.  From there, I would suggest routing over the left rear wheelhouse by going behind the armrest upholstery - that would avoid the harness being pinched by the lower rear seat.  At that point, you are in the trunk where the harness routes originally.

Courtesy lights and door switches are another challenge.  No problem to get to the front switches once you remove the kick panels, but the rear door ones really have no where to go easily other than up.  At the bottom of the B pillar there is a fairly heavy angle bracket that will block running the wire down in the channel and out to the floor.  only path would be inside the metal and behind the B pillar upholstery panel.  You would need to pop off that B pillar upholstery panel to do anything in this area, and that may be hard without damage. If you do get into this area, you should be able to add the wiring needed to make the courtesy lights work in the rear sear base, and to feed the rear armrest lighters.

Getting wiring to the dome light with the headliner in would be a complete stumper for me.  The dome light needs both a battery and a switched ground wire.  The original wires are retained by several metal clips on the roof reinforcing channels, and there is a wood frame that the light assembly mounts to that wiring also runs through.  I just don't know how to door this with the headliner in place.

The only other thought I have would be if you decided to compromise original another way, by running a replacement harness under the body.  You could go down thru the wood in the LF cowl area, run back to the B pillar where you drill the wood to drop wires from those door switches, then continue to the back.  Split things to run to the various rear lights from under the body, then pop back in the trunk in the 'opposite' direction as original to feed the trunk & license lights and feed the seat base courtesy lights and armrest lighters.  This still leaves the dome light inop, but preserves the most upholstery. 

Up to you to decide if one of these compromises is acceptable, or if you are willing to take on a more major restoration to keep it all original.  I probably have pictures of most of these areas after sandblasting, if the words don't make sense.

Paul
Paul Phillips CLC#27214
1941 60 Special (6019S)
1949 60 Special (6069X)
1937 Packard Super 8 Convertible Victoria
1910 Oakland Model 24 Runabout

mr41cadillac

paul thanks for taking the time to give me some more great  ideas.  I will discuss with my man that's helping and see which way to go. thanks john