News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

1952 Cadillac Jetaway Shifting problems

Started by tlaferriere, February 07, 2016, 03:45:24 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

tlaferriere

Hello everyone.

A customer is describing his shifting problem in a 1952 as "it will only shift to the next gear when i let off the gas pedal.  If you just accelerate, it will only stay in the gear its in until I let off the gas". 

Suggestions?

Thank you everyone. 

Tom Laferriere
Smithfield, RI 

www.tomlaferriere.com

57eldoking

The Jetaway wasn't introduced until the 56 model year. I'm not very familiar with the original Hydramatic but it sounds like a throttle valve adjustment issue. Read up on the procedure for adjusting the throttle valve rod.
1957 Eldorado Biarritz #906
1957 Eldorado Biarritz #1020 http://bit.ly/1kTvFlM
1957 Eldorado Seville  #1777 http://bit.ly/1T3Uo1c
1995 Fleetwood Brougham  http://bit.ly/20YwJV4
2010 SRX Performance

1946 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup
1957 Buick Caballero Estate Wagon (x2)
1960 Chevy Apache 10 Stepside
1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer (x2)
1992 Pontiac Trans Sport GT

tlaferriere

Yes, you are correct.  I believe its called a Dual Range Hyrdamatic. 

dplotkin

Quote from: 57eldoking on February 07, 2016, 07:48:59 AM
The Jetaway wasn't introduced until the 56 model year. I'm not very familiar with the original Hydramatic but it sounds like a throttle valve adjustment issue. Read up on the procedure for adjusting the throttle valve rod.

It's better if the new for 56 transmission used in Cadillac cars is called by its proper name...controlled coupling Hydra-Matic, and not Jetaway, which was an Oldsmobile trade name used on at least two unrelated transmissions in addition to Olds version of the new 56 unit. Cadillac never used the name Jetaway, so we shouldn't either. proper names avoids confusion and errors.

Dan
56 Fleetwood Sixty Special (Starlight silver over Dawn Grey)
60 Buick Electra six window
60 Chrysler 300 F Coupe
61 Plymouth Savoy Ram Inducted 413 Superstock
62 Pontiac Bonneville Vista
63 Chevy Impala convertable
63 Ford Galaxie XL fastback
65 Corvette convertable 396
68 Chrysler New Yorker

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Dan,
I agree! I also cringe when I hear "tri-power". "bat wing" & "positraction".
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Bob Schuman

Bob Hoffmann's comment really awoke a nerve with me. Lots of cars offered a triple two barrel carburetor factory setup, but if it isn't a Pontiac it isn't a TriPower. That was the Pontiac name for their 3x2 setup. Olds called theirs J-2, Plymouth and Dodge had the Six Pack, 1958 Mercury offered the Super Marauder engine with 3x2 carburetion, and if Cadillac had a special name for their setup I'm not aware of it. But it WAS NOT a Tri Power.
Bob Schuman
Bob Schuman, CLC#254
2017 CT6-unsatisfactory (repurchased by GM)
2023 XT5

TJ Hopland

So back to Tom's question I would say the first question should be if anyone knows how long its been since or if this has ever been 'rebuilt'.   If its been a long time there could be a lot of stuff that just has not aged well. 

Next question would be when did this issue start?  Did it come on all the sudden?  Or did it start out with other symptoms that evolved into the current issue?

Any recent work done to the car?  Carb work?  Motor mounts?  Exhaust?   Anything that could have effected the rod adjustment is what I am after there.   At least I am assuming the dual range had a rod like the controlled coupling model did. 

What the cars operational history?   Just pulled out of storage?    Regularly driven? 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

57eldoking

Quote from: dplotkin on February 07, 2016, 10:14:29 AM
It's better if the new for 56 transmission used in Cadillac cars is called by its proper name...controlled coupling Hydra-Matic, and not Jetaway, which was an Oldsmobile trade name used on at least two unrelated transmissions in addition to Olds version of the new 56 unit. Cadillac never used the name Jetaway, so we shouldn't either. proper names avoids confusion and errors.

Dan

You are 100% correct, I shall never use the Jetaway term again on this forum.

Quote from: Bob Schuman on February 07, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
Bob Hoffmann's comment really awoke a nerve with me. Lots of cars offered a triple two barrel carburetor factory setup, but if it isn't a Pontiac it isn't a TriPower. That was the Pontiac name for their 3x2 setup. Olds called theirs J-2, Plymouth and Dodge had the Six Pack, 1958 Mercury offered the Super Marauder engine with 3x2 carburetion, and if Cadillac had a special name for their setup I'm not aware of it. But it WAS NOT a Tri Power.
Bob Schuman

I believe there wasn't a Cadillac name for just the 3x2 carb setup, but engines equipped with it were referred to as Eldorado engines.
1957 Eldorado Biarritz #906
1957 Eldorado Biarritz #1020 http://bit.ly/1kTvFlM
1957 Eldorado Seville  #1777 http://bit.ly/1T3Uo1c
1995 Fleetwood Brougham  http://bit.ly/20YwJV4
2010 SRX Performance

1946 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup
1957 Buick Caballero Estate Wagon (x2)
1960 Chevy Apache 10 Stepside
1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer (x2)
1992 Pontiac Trans Sport GT

dplotkin

Quote from: 57eldoking on February 08, 2016, 07:12:18 AM
You are 100% correct, I shall never use the Jetaway term again on this forum.

I believe there wasn't a Cadillac name for just the 3x2 carb setup, but engines equipped with it were referred to as (the) Eldorado engines.

Absolutely correct. Eldorado engine is what Cadillac called it.
Tri-power is a loosely used term unwittingly applied to Ford and Chrysler products too. Pontiac friends of mine cringe when they hear it.

Dan
56 Fleetwood Sixty Special (Starlight silver over Dawn Grey)
60 Buick Electra six window
60 Chrysler 300 F Coupe
61 Plymouth Savoy Ram Inducted 413 Superstock
62 Pontiac Bonneville Vista
63 Chevy Impala convertable
63 Ford Galaxie XL fastback
65 Corvette convertable 396
68 Chrysler New Yorker

savemy67

Hello Tom,

I think Henning had a good suggestion with respect to the throttle valve rod adjustment.  Have you had any luck?

Hello all,

I admit to using trade-marked names generically.  I call facial tissue, Kleenex.  I call a hot-tub, a Jacuzzi.  I call locking pliers, Vise-Grips.  And I have referred to a 3x2 carburetor set-up as Tri-Power.  Since imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, perhaps Oldsmobile and Pontiac (R.I.P.) enthusiasts can at least revel in their marque's achievements.

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

Jon S

Quote from: dplotkin on February 08, 2016, 08:06:59 PM
Pontiac friends of mine cringe when they hear it.

Dan

Well, Pontiac used the term and affixed the emblems to their cars, so they shouldn't cringe:

The Cadillac "term" in the Cadillac Shop Manual is "3-2 barrel carburetor engine" and the Sales Brochure refers to it as the Eldorado engine.

Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

Tom,

If it quacks like a duck and shifts like a Jetaway who gives a damn.

With the hyrda matic one needs to make sure all the elements of the shifting mechanism are correctly adjusted, per the shop manual.

The first adjustment covered is the TV rod adjustment, but then there is more.

The levers on the transmission need to be adjusted correctly, per the shop manual or the shifting will be off as you described. Special tools needed - yes. They are described in the shop manual.

My opinion

The Johnny



John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

dplotkin

Quote from: Jon S on February 09, 2016, 12:34:51 PM
Well, Pontiac used the term and affixed the emblems to their cars, so they shouldn't cringe:

Perhaps I wasn't clear. My Pontiac friends object to the term Tri-Power used to describe 3 carburetors on non-Pontiacs.

I didn't intend for this rather small matter to blossom into a big thing. I'm an English major and I believe our communication with each other is better served when we all agree on and use proper terms. Whether it quacks or not has nothing to do with it. There were many iterations of the two units over the years. When looking for help its best when both parties sing from the same hymnal.

Dan
56 Fleetwood Sixty Special (Starlight silver over Dawn Grey)
60 Buick Electra six window
60 Chrysler 300 F Coupe
61 Plymouth Savoy Ram Inducted 413 Superstock
62 Pontiac Bonneville Vista
63 Chevy Impala convertable
63 Ford Galaxie XL fastback
65 Corvette convertable 396
68 Chrysler New Yorker

rollsfixer

I think Jetaway and Controlled-Coupling transmission really the same thing, only different names.  They are both the revised Hydramatic with a second fluid coupling to better control shifts.  When communicating about technical issues, the important thing is to have accurate understanding.  Using precise terminology helps, but understanding is the key.

Lots of confusion out there regarding carburetor configurations, mostly caused by multiple terms for the same thing.  Refer to my point above.  Three, 2-barrel carburetors with a progressive linkage to control the front and rear carburetors when maximum power is desired is a common configuration, used first by the hot-rod set long before Pontiac.  The terms were 'three twos,' 'three deuces,' or 'triple carburetors.'   Pontiac 'introduced' it (again), and they called it Tri-Power.  That was big news, this catchy term caught on, and since then, it has become a term approaching Kleenex in genericity of use.  For those who might be offended, consider that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, and also, only a fool takes offense when no offense is intended.   Do you understand a six-barrel carburetor and all of the other synonymous terms?  Saying what is immediately or most commonly understood cannot be wrong if understanding is your objective. 

Regarding poor shifting, the Hydramatic is not a well informed transmission.  It only knows car speed, engine rpm, throttle position, and what the driver tells it via the column selector.  The THM-400 added vacuum modulation for improved shifting control, but that is NA this discussion.  As explained above, correct adjustment of the throttle linkage is critical to a Hydramatic shifting the best it can.  However, there is an important refinement to throttle linkage adjustment, more important in some applications than others due to variations in linkages.  This is freedom from slop in the linkage.  If there is slop in the linkage, the Hydramatic cannot receive precise information from the throttle.  It takes what it thinks the throttle is saying, but maybe that is not quite right.  In some applications, depending on the amount of linkage slop, it could be impossible to achieve correct adjustment.  Therefore, If you want your Hydramatic shifting like it did when new, check for linkage slop and correct as necessary.  Then, after fixing the linkage, adjust it correctly. 

TJ Hopland

Linkage questions is one reason I was asking more questions.   There was that recent thread where someone had shifting issues and discovered that at some point his carb had been changed and the linkage was basically backwards.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Jon S

I have found that the shifting characteristics of the 4 speed hydramatics are closely related to the engine timing.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

TJ Hopland

Quote from: Jon S on February 12, 2016, 11:53:37 AM
I have found that the shifting characteristics of the 4 speed hydramatics are closely related to the engine timing.

That would make some sense.  Timing will relate to how much throttle movement you get vs actual RPM change which will effect the rod movement so I could see that changing things.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

dplotkin

Quote from: TJ Hopland on February 12, 2016, 11:27:22 AM
Linkage questions is one reason I was asking more questions.   There was that recent thread where someone had shifting issues and discovered that at some point his carb had been changed and the linkage was basically backwards.   

The Carter and Rochester carburetors used on these cars have a throttle arm to which the TV rod to the transmission attaches. At least in the 56 and its Controlled Coupling Hydra-matic this arm is designed to throw the rod at the precise arc to properly actuate the transmission valve according to throttle opening. If this arm is not removed and reinstalled on a replacement carb that may have an arm intended for another vehicle the TV rod adjustment cannot be properly made.

Dan
56 Fleetwood Sixty Special (Starlight silver over Dawn Grey)
60 Buick Electra six window
60 Chrysler 300 F Coupe
61 Plymouth Savoy Ram Inducted 413 Superstock
62 Pontiac Bonneville Vista
63 Chevy Impala convertable
63 Ford Galaxie XL fastback
65 Corvette convertable 396
68 Chrysler New Yorker

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

Dan,

Correct, but it is more than that. The linkage arms on the tranny and adjustment are also critical.

That is why I suggest looking at the shop manual. I had to adjust all to get the 52 to shift correctly using the special tools listed.

the Johnny
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series