Author Topic: 57 Fuel pump question  (Read 3448 times)

Offline wearymicrobe

  • Posts: 70
  • Name: Michael Coehn
57 Fuel pump question
« on: March 02, 2016, 01:42:46 AM »
Really dumb question but it is 11:00 at night and I have been hammering on the Caddi.

Been having some fueling issues on the 1957 CDV. Basically at anything under say 50% throttle car runs fine. About that it falls on its face. Been thinking it was bad gas or the secondary's not kicking in.

Found that the upper gasket on the fuel pump was completely shot. like holes in it on the inside. Made one out of ETOH resistant rubber and reassembled it and seems to be running like a dream now. Is the upper chamber on the 57 fuel pump need to be completely sealed. Used to working on much older stuff where the lower just forces the fuel up and the one way valves are in the same chamber and it is completely sealed.

This is the seal that I made a replacement for, it was venting inside between both the chambers. No leaks outside the pump though. Seal I made is pretty hidious.




Offline Roger Zimmermann

  • Posts: 4541
  • Switzerland
  • CLC Number: 21015
  • Name: Roger Zimmermann
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2016, 02:48:15 AM »
At the outlet of the fuel filter, you have 2 fuel lines. I'm assuming one is going to the carb; where is going the other one? I suppose your car is equipped with A/C and there is a vapor return line. Unfortunately for you, the fuel filter you have is not for this application, it's for cars without A/C.
With your set-up, it's no wonder than you cannot have full power, about 50% of the fuel is going back to the tank if my assumption is right...
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Offline DBDB

  • Posts: 105
  • Name: Daniel Boeve
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2016, 08:20:21 AM »
I never heard that some 1957 cadillacs had a vapor lock return line .From what year on is this the case ? Thanks

Offline Roger Zimmermann

  • Posts: 4541
  • Switzerland
  • CLC Number: 21015
  • Name: Roger Zimmermann
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2016, 08:37:51 AM »
Since 1857 on cars with A/C.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Offline Walter Youshock

  • Posts: 2970
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2016, 09:10:26 AM »
Cadillac fuel filters are installed opposite the way yours is.  The bowl should be up.  The return line was attached to a fitting on the bottom of the filter body.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Offline 55 CDV Fan 82

  • Posts: 1122
  • CLC Number: 30850
  • Name: Tim Neumann
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2016, 09:33:27 AM »

I was going to install mine without a fuel filter once I get mine in around mid April.  Fuel tank and lines are new so I'm not too concerned with particles in my gas.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1955 Cadillac Coupe Deville "Evelyn"
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible "Joyce"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Opera Coupe "Adeline"
1940 Chevrolet Coupe "Scarlett"
1941 Ford 11Y truck
1954 Buick Special 48D
1955 Packard Clipper Super Panama
1957 Cadillac Series 62 Coupe
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1968 Chevrolet Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln

Offline Roger Zimmermann

  • Posts: 4541
  • Switzerland
  • CLC Number: 21015
  • Name: Roger Zimmermann
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2016, 09:42:55 AM »
When the car was new, tank and lines were clean too...You may refuel with dirty fuel, especially if the tank at the refill station is almost empty. I would not take that chance.

To Walter Youshock: you are correct about the position of the bowl. However, this is more logical to have the bowl down: you see if there is dirt and, when you are removing the bowl, the gas stay in...Unless there is a "Z" at the pump outlet, the standard position of the filter is like you explained because the bowl cannot be down due to the limited space.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Offline wearymicrobe

  • Posts: 70
  • Name: Michael Coehn
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2016, 09:59:05 AM »
That photos is just someone else's installation. Easier then trying to get a photo online at night when you are covered in grease and tired. Mine is OEM and by the book.

Just need to know if the upper chamber requires a air tight seal for my sanity.

Offline Roger Zimmermann

  • Posts: 4541
  • Switzerland
  • CLC Number: 21015
  • Name: Roger Zimmermann
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 10:03:40 AM »
Just need to know if the upper chamber requires a air tight seal for my sanity.
Yes, it must. Otherwise, the fuel is not getting to the carb but in the engine compartment.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Offline 55 CDV Fan 82

  • Posts: 1122
  • CLC Number: 30850
  • Name: Tim Neumann
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2016, 11:16:57 AM »

Does anyone know if the fuel filter were an item originally installed from the dealer?  There are replacements on the interwebs but it would be cool to see some photo evidence
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1955 Cadillac Coupe Deville "Evelyn"
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible "Joyce"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Opera Coupe "Adeline"
1940 Chevrolet Coupe "Scarlett"
1941 Ford 11Y truck
1954 Buick Special 48D
1955 Packard Clipper Super Panama
1957 Cadillac Series 62 Coupe
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1968 Chevrolet Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln

Offline Walter Youshock

  • Posts: 2970
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2016, 12:12:25 PM »
Yes.  Fuel filters came installed from the factory.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Offline Jon S

  • Posts: 2555
  • Name: J. Schapiro
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2016, 01:01:19 PM »
Yes.  Fuel filters came installed from the factory.

Correct and the Factory ones were "stone" material; not pleated paper.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Offline 57eldoking

  • Posts: 453
  • Oslo, Norway
  • CLC Number: 28662
  • Name: Henning Kjensli
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2016, 01:23:04 PM »
I think the posted picture is of a dual quad setup. You can see the gold valve cover and I think also two carbs in the background. The T fitting should have been installed infront of the front carb though, not on the filter. It is also installed upside down.
1957 Eldorado Biarritz #906
1957 Eldorado Biarritz #1020 http://bit.ly/1kTvFlM
1957 Eldorado Seville  #1777 http://bit.ly/1T3Uo1c
1994 Seville STS http://bit.ly/1IaOT0c
1995 Fleetwood Brougham  http://bit.ly/20YwJV4

1946 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup
1957 Buick Caballero Estate Wagon (2)
1960 Chevy Apache 10 Stepside
1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 10183
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2016, 01:30:22 PM »
Bowl up would seem like a really odd orientation for a filter.  Down you would think would be better for sediment and water.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline 57eldoking

  • Posts: 453
  • Oslo, Norway
  • CLC Number: 28662
  • Name: Henning Kjensli
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2016, 01:55:21 PM »
You're right TJ, it does seem counter-intuitive when you think about it. I was a little quick in just trusting my memory on this one. I couldn't recall ever seeing those two 90 degree elbows which are required in order to flip the filter and not have clearance issues. This screenshot is from a 58 instructional video on the new 3x2 carb setup clearly shows the filter upside down. Why would it be different in 57?

The return hose from top of the filter is also very visible on this AC car.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 02:03:51 PM by 57eldoking »
1957 Eldorado Biarritz #906
1957 Eldorado Biarritz #1020 http://bit.ly/1kTvFlM
1957 Eldorado Seville  #1777 http://bit.ly/1T3Uo1c
1994 Seville STS http://bit.ly/1IaOT0c
1995 Fleetwood Brougham  http://bit.ly/20YwJV4

1946 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup
1957 Buick Caballero Estate Wagon (2)
1960 Chevy Apache 10 Stepside
1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer

Offline 55 CDV Fan 82

  • Posts: 1122
  • CLC Number: 30850
  • Name: Tim Neumann
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2016, 01:59:28 PM »

Cool photo thank you!
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1955 Cadillac Coupe Deville "Evelyn"
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible "Joyce"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Opera Coupe "Adeline"
1940 Chevrolet Coupe "Scarlett"
1941 Ford 11Y truck
1954 Buick Special 48D
1955 Packard Clipper Super Panama
1957 Cadillac Series 62 Coupe
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1968 Chevrolet Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln

Offline 55 CDV Fan 82

  • Posts: 1122
  • CLC Number: 30850
  • Name: Tim Neumann
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2016, 02:02:26 PM »

Just curious but what is the size of the threads for the inlet/output tubes for both the pump and the filter?
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1955 Cadillac Coupe Deville "Evelyn"
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible "Joyce"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Opera Coupe "Adeline"
1940 Chevrolet Coupe "Scarlett"
1941 Ford 11Y truck
1954 Buick Special 48D
1955 Packard Clipper Super Panama
1957 Cadillac Series 62 Coupe
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1968 Chevrolet Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln

Offline 57eldoking

  • Posts: 453
  • Oslo, Norway
  • CLC Number: 28662
  • Name: Henning Kjensli
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2016, 02:14:28 PM »
Thinking about it, the posted picture probably is of a 58 3x2 setup! It matches the factory photo with the T-fitting immediately after the filter.
1957 Eldorado Biarritz #906
1957 Eldorado Biarritz #1020 http://bit.ly/1kTvFlM
1957 Eldorado Seville  #1777 http://bit.ly/1T3Uo1c
1994 Seville STS http://bit.ly/1IaOT0c
1995 Fleetwood Brougham  http://bit.ly/20YwJV4

1946 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup
1957 Buick Caballero Estate Wagon (2)
1960 Chevy Apache 10 Stepside
1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer

Offline Jon S

  • Posts: 2555
  • Name: J. Schapiro
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2016, 02:24:00 PM »
You're right TJ, it does seem counter-intuitive when you think about it. I was a little quick in just trusting my memory on this one. I couldn't recall ever seeing those two 90 degree elbows which are required in order to flip the filter and not have clearance issues. This screenshot is from a 58 instructional video on the new 3x2 carb setup clearly shows the filter upside down. Why would it be different in 57?

The return hose from top of the filter is also very visible on this AC car.



. . . and look - The Fuel Pump is not painted blue; but rather natural as mine was new from the factory in 1958!

and it is a slant top, as was my original.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Offline Dan LeBlanc

  • Posts: 4813
  • Name: Dan LeBlanc
Re: 57 Fuel pump question
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2016, 02:48:42 PM »
What are those I see?  TOWER STYLE HOSE CLAMPS
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 02:54:54 PM by Dan LeBlanc »
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

 

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