Flathead starter issues

[48caddymn]

My 48 Caddy started fine yesterday and I pulled it out of the garage and shut it off.  An hour later, I went back to start it and it turned over a few times very slow (normal for the 6 volt) and started clicking like a dead battery.  I took the battery out and charged it for 2 hours and still the same fast clicking. I can see the plunger on the back of the solenoid moving back and forth like a wood pecker on a piece of rotten wood but it will not engage the starter. The positive battery cables is 02 and new; the ground is a braided strap bolted directly to the block.  The starter was bench tested a month ago at a shop I used before and I was told it was in very good condition.  I plan on taking my new 6 volt Optima battery to get a load test done just to be sure the battery did not go bad, but any other advice before I pull the starter and have it checked again?  If I use a wire to jump the solenoid I get the same fast clicking.

Dan

[Jay Friedman]

It could very well be that the problem is in the starter or battery, particularly since it started fine before you pulled it out of the garage. 

Nonetheless, I suggest you also make sure the starter is well grounded.  Try running a thick (at least 10 gauge) temporary jumper grounding wire from the point where the block is grounded to one of the bolts holding on the end plate of the starter (that is, the end that does not go in the motor).  If you do this I would first temporarily remove the bolt and scrape off any paint around the head of the bolt too.  If that doesn't improve things, then if and when you do remove the starter again make sure there is no paint on the other end of the starter where it touches the block as well as the adjacent surfaces on the block. 

If you like I can send you an article that appeared in the Self Starter some months ago which explained how to permanently ground the starter end plate (which holds the brushes which most require good grounding).  Email me at jaysfriedman@yahoo.com

Good luck.

[Steve Passmore]

 As the solenoid is working it shows the relay os OK.  Sounds like the large brass button on the end of the solenoid is not making contact to transmit the current to the starter.  These do sometimes get corroded and burnt or it could just need adjustment to make it throw in farther.

[Bobby B]

Dan,
Hi.. Sometimes the rod depth needs to be adjusted to throw the gear far enough out to engage with the flywheel. It'll click all day and not engage the flywheel if not adjusted properly. I've also seen working solenoids, but too weak to throw far enough out to engage the flywheel. I've converted to 12V a long time ago and not for any specific reasons other than putting the car into the 21st century. I had to deal with finding the 12V GM solenoid that closely resembles and fits the factory starter. The adjustment wasn't easy and took some modification, but it works like a charm and throws the gear out perfectly every time. Pull your starter and bench test it before wasting any more time trying to turn it over in place on the block. 
                           Bobby

[48caddymn]

Update......i had the new 6 volt Optima battery tested twice and it passed both times.  I have 6.2 volts at the battery; when I hit the starter button it drops to 6.1 volts.  If I clip the negative volt meter clip onto the negative battery post and the positive clip on the rear of the positive stud on the end of the solenoid, the voltage drops from 6.2 to 2.3 volts when pushing the start button.

I'll try grounding the rear of the starter, but I have a feeling i will be lying on my back with my arms in a tight spot trying to remove a starter later today.

Dan

[48caddymn]

Even though I had the battery tested twice, I still think that is my problem.  I took my 12 volt jumper pack and put the negative clamp on the braided ground strap that bolts to the block; and the positive clamp I put directly on the positive solenoid stud.....and the car started right up.  I shut the car off right a way since I don't want the 12 volt battery pack to cause any issues.  I did note the positive battery cable going back to the Optima battery was getting very warm from the 12 volts being hooked to it for the 30 seconds it was connected.

So....I need to find a good 6 volt battery I can throw in the car just to eliminate the battery issue.

[Bobby B]

Dan,
If you hit the 6V solenoid with 12V, once again, it could be your problem. They get weak and don't fully extend. You hitting it with 12V and it working, might be the key.
                                                                 Bobby

[48caddymn]

Problem fixed.....replaced the new positive cable with another new 2/0 and it works fine now.  The connections seemed all good so not sure if a cable can go bad?

Dan

[Bobby B]

WOW  :o….A simple fix for a change!
                                         Bobby

[Glen]

 An explanation of what is happing will help. 
When you try to start the engine the first thing that happens is the solenoid is connected to the battery.  The solenoid takes relatively little current.  As the solenoid pulls in it connects the starter motor.  The starter motor takes a lot of current and if the electrical system cannot handle the current the voltage at the starter and solenoid drops below the voltage/current needed to hold the solenoid in.  So the solenoid drops out.  Now the starter motor is disconnected and the load is removed, so the voltage goes up and the solenoid pulls in again and connects the motor.  The cycle repeats as long as the starter is activated.  This rapid clicking is what differentiates the problem as a load capability problem vice another problem. 
The two basic causes of the this is a bad battery or a dirty/bad connection.  The bad connection will include too small of battery cable, corrosion on the battery terminals, painted ground points and several more similar problems. 

[Steve Passmore]

A lot of these battery connections hold the cable by just two screws, I hate that as they can corrode inside the connection.   I always solder these as well to be safe. That's probably what the problem was.