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Crank snout hitting timing cover seal '68 DeVille

Started by CarsandDrums68, June 03, 2016, 03:28:01 PM

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CarsandDrums68

Hey guys,

This is my first restoration car and post on this forum but I need help. I currently own a 1968 DeVille Coupe Convertible, and just finished replacing the timing chain. I'm putting it all back together now, and I'm almost done. I was pressing the crank snout back on to the crankshaft when I realized the snout is pushing more on one side, rubbing up against the timing cover seal. I thought the snout was being pressed crooked but it is square with everything, and i have a real hard time believing that the seal is crooked either. I also oiled and greased the seal and snout for an easier pressing. I also thought that the timing cover might have slop on the pins so i tried taping it with a screw driver and hammer to see if it would budge, but i got nothing. I really am not trying to take this all apart again, I already put back the oil pan, exhaust, starter, water pump, and timing cover. What could be the reason for it not looking good? I posted pictures below.

- CarsandDrums68

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Bobby B

Quote from: "Cadillac Kid"  Greg Surfas 15364 on June 03, 2016, 05:21:47 PM
Pictures???

Exactly....
   
  Are the parts all from the same motor, and did YOU disassemble it yourself? Obviously, something isn't right...... ???
                                                                                                                                    Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

CarsandDrums68

Here are some pics, I assembled it myself with the help of my very experienced father, but even he is stumped. It was running strong in the fall after  i brought it back to life over the summer, so the parts are correct.

http://imgur.com/a/0XGP2 - Pics are here

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Alex,
From the pictures it looks like the seal is not seated fully in the timing cover.  IF you have the timing cover on correctly, over the pins and seated against the block all the way around that would be the issue.  Also judging from the wear the crank hub (not snout) shows you are going to have a hard time getting it to seal.  There is a kit to correct this.  I would suggest pulling the hub back off and bottoming the seal in the timing cover.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Bobby B

I'm no expert on what your balancer hub is supposed to look like, but from the pictures it looks like a few different possibilities going one here:

A. The seal is wrong...
B. The crank hub needs to be re-sleeved to take out the "step" or "groove".....
C. Due to letter B., the crank hub is catching on the seal, causing it to "flip" on entry, especially if not put on straight with the correct tool, which is not a block of wood and a hammer...........

Could be all or none of the above. Go in your shop manual to get the correct diameter of the hub pin and check it with a good micrometer, and also with a dial gauge for out-of-roundness. I would say that 75% of my rebuilds with include the hub being re-sleeved and machined back to the proper dimensions just for cheap insurance. Most of the time they all have a groove worn in them from the seal and will eventually leak no matter what you do. It's one of those little overlooked things that is actually pretty important and could save you a lot of time in the long run.
                                        Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

CarsandDrums68

Thanks everyone,

Im gonna take out the hub again and check the seal i thought it was pressed in all the way but im gonna double check. and we'll see how it goes

CarsandDrums68

Thanks everyone,

It looked like the seal pressed in more and the snout seated well against it.

Thanks for all the help

-Alex

Scot Minesinger

I have done this job 5 times in the last two years and never suffered a problem in this part of the job, but of course there is a first for everything.  I could not really see what the problem was as had a hard time opening up the pictures.  This is a very laborious job, and the risk of wrong parts installed is not worth it.  I buy the parts from Max Torque in CA and it costs a little more, but parts are right (price of parts are nothing compared to labor).  can you send some better pictures?  The seal of course needs to be pressed in all the way, but it seems that this would be super obvious before front cover is being installed on block.  Did you maybe have one block pin thru cover and the other not so it is not on block properly?
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty