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76 eldorado A/C belt replacement

Started by cadillacrandy, June 25, 2016, 03:40:59 PM

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cadillacrandy

I am trying to replace the A/C belt on my 76 Eldorado. I am finding that the fan pulley and crank shaft pulley are too close to allow the belt to go on. Any suggestions/Tips. I have started to loosen to water pump which the fan pulley and shaft are connected. I am hoping this will allow me to slide them forward enough to make room to get the old belt off and new one on. I also thought about loosening the balancer and sliding it forward to get the clearance needed to get the belt between the two pullies.

Thankyou 

76eldo

What. ??
STOP.

By loosening the alternator and or power steering pump and or the compressor you can change any belt.

Loosening the water pump will not to anything.

You may need some one to show you what to do here in your driveway.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Scot Minesinger

Agree with Brian, get the shop manual to show you how to do this job (probably have belt routed wrong).  Alternator and power steering pump adjustments are how any belt is changed or tightened.  That a/c belt can be a bit tight, but it should fit no problem, never had an issue, done it like 30 times.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

TJ Hopland

I too don't get what is going on with your car.   The AC belt does not to between the crank and water pump pulleys, it goes around the crank then just passes behind the water pump pulley.    The only time there would be a belt going between the pulleys is if at some point someone removed or bypassed the AC completely and ran a shorter belt direct to the power steering.   In this case then I could see that you would have to loosen or remove either the water pump or crank pulley to get the belt through.   If that was what was done and you are now installing AC just cut the old belt. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

cadillacrandy

YES YES YES TJ, that is exactly my situation. The A/C was not being used by previous owner and a shorter belt was used. I hope I'm not getting into a different can of worms by getting the A/C going again.

So glad you understood. My SHOP MANUAL a very thick book from Cadillac is not the easiest to understand. That's why Forum groups are so helpful.

thank you again

TJ Hopland

Just cut the existing short belt to the power steering and throw it away.   You can then install the new AC PS belt and then re install the other 2 that you had to remove to get that one on.   If you are not getting the new AC charged right away just unplug the plug to the compressor clutch so it does not try to run and hurt anything. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Scot Minesinger

You should get the a/c going again.  If the belt was routed around and not using the a/c, then still the ps would be your adjustment.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

cadillacrandy

Thanks to all that replied to my cry for help. I did cut the short belt off and was able to put the new A/C to power steering belt on. Now to deal with charging the A/C system.

Thank you ALL

TJ Hopland

There are some folks here with AC experience in that era so if you have questions or issues and can't find the answers by searching go ahead and start a new thread and ask.    Dealing with AC can get expensive pretty quick so you want to do it right the first time.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

cadillacrandy

Thanks for the heads up TJ. I do have a few question.

cadillacrandy

Another question regarding the A/C belt. Would engine timing change by going from the smaller belt that went from crank shaft to power steering and then removing it and putting the larger belt that is on the crank shaft, A/C compressor, power steering pump?

chrisntam

No, engine timing has to do with the relationship between the distributor & cam timing gear and distributor adjustment.
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

#12
That is controlled by the timing CHAIN which is behind the waterpump.
Newer cars have a timing belt that does the same thing but our cars use the chain.

Is that just a curiousity thing or is it running differently? If the distributor hold down bolt is not tight the distributor can move.That will effect timing. You may have bumped it while doing your work.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

cadillacrandy

I don't think I disturbed the distributor while changing to the new belt. I have also replaced the fuel filter. The problem I encountered was a sluggish acceleration, back firing at the carb and poor shifting. This evening I checked the timing and it was a lot out of time so I adjusted the timing and I think the shifting is better and so for acceleration has improved with out back firing.

Thanks. Randy

TJ Hopland

I'm with the others, the AC belt should not have changed anything performance wise.    Was the filter nasty?   Maybe it was plugged up for the last owner too and they adjusted the timing to compensate for it?   Now you fixed it so timing can go back to normal?

Do you know about the plastic covered cam sprockets these cars came with?   They don't hold up well with age and or mileage.   I don't want to scare you but there is a chance yours is original and what you experienced was the chain skipping what is left of a tooth.     To get an idea how bad it may be you can pull the distributor cap and have someone watch the rotor while you turn the engine over by hand.    Normally you would put a socket on the bolt in the front of the crank but these engines didn't come with one installed so you have to get one or turn it another way like a strap wrench around a pulley or a flywheel tool.  Pulling the spark plugs will make it easier to turn.   You turn the engine so the timing marks align then stop at say 0.  Now with someone watching the rotor start turning the other direction and stop when the rotor starts turning.  Its normal for there to be a little slop but if you got more than say 5 degrees that is a sign of an issue.  If you got 10 or more its likely plastic with no teeth left and it could go at any time. 

Timing chains are not especially expensive but the proper way to change them involves dropping the oil pan which can't be easily done in an Eldo because the transmission is in the way.    There is a way you can do it without dropping the pan so it depends on where you are with the rest of the car and your long term plans which method you choose if it needs done now.

I hope that isn't your problem.  It sounds like you are getting close to being able to enjoy the car a bit so I hope its not going to be another big project.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

cadillacrandy

Thank you TJ for the heads up about this issue. I sure hope the Caddy isn't experiencing this. That would be just something else added to the list. I am wanting to fix the exhaust manifold gasket next because I hate that exhaust leaking noise going on now.

Thank you for all your great advise and help. I appreciate it a lot.

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

I'm sure Scot will chime in on the timing chain issue. But the nylon gears will make slop,but probably not enough for it to jump time. Either way, changing the belt would nit cause that.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

TJ Hopland

Ya unless you like a lot of noise a leaking exhaust can really make a car, especially a Cadillac seem unfinished.   On the Eldorados the left manifold likes to crack for some reason and is the one that is unique to the Eldorado.   They didn't originally come with gaskets so if yours has gaskets in it that is a sign that the manifolds have been off at some point for one reason or another.    If you are doing major engine work and the heads are clean and you surface the manifolds you can do no gaskets again but for a quick fix gaskets are your best shot. 

On your timing thing had you checked it before so you know it moved or were you just checking stuff and it was not where the book said it was supposed to be?   And you were checking at the recommended RPM with the vac line disconnected and plugged?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Randy,.
Before I got too deep into the issue, check the vacuum lines attached to the thermal vacuum sensor/valve that screws into the block just under the drivers side cylinder head at the front, just behind the power steering pump.  The lines or the valve itself are frequently inadvertently damaged when working at the front end of the motor, especially changing belts.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

cadillacrandy

Thank you TJ regarding the gaskets on the exhausted manifolds. I sure hope there isn't a crack.
Regarding the timing, I just knew it wasn't accelerating right and popping back in the carb. The shifting didn't feel normal either.  That is when I thought I would check the timing. I had adjusted it before after new plugs and wires but that was a few months ago and I wasn't having problmes. It's possible that I didn't set it correctly. I wish I knew someone here in Indianapolis that knew about these cars and get there help. lol