1979 Eldorado, chassis VIN location?

[T.Skytte]

Hi,

Does anybody know where the chassis VIN is located? I don't mean the one in the left side of the window, nor the right side on the cowl.
Shouldn't there be one on the frame itself?

In order to register the car here in Denmark (just imported it from Florida) the inspector (like an MOT) will not pass it until we either find this number (he couldn't find it either, but the is no US car expert) or have a new number inprinted in the frame.

It should be the VIN or a derivative. Surely there muste be SOME kind of number on the frame?

Best regards

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Hi,
My first question... do you have a shop manual for your car?? If not, you need to get one. Please advise.
Bob

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I have just checked the '79 Shop Manual I have, and there is no mention of a Frame Stamping.   Just the engine number, and the VIN at the Dash.

If you are interested, I have this Manual for sale at AU$50.00, (E34.00) but from what I can gather, the postage is probably more than the cost of the book to Denmark.

Bruce.

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

I'm sure someone here will know, but they don't publish that info in the books.
I thought I would have to do that and police stations say they know where it is but would not tell me. They say they would have taken my car in the back to find it....... But would not let me go back with them to see where they looked.
Jeff

[bcroe]

I torched my second 79 E car into tiny pieces (to supply parts for the third).  I
looked at about every piece of body and frame, but I never found that number
we both looked for.  Bruce Roe

ps certain women had badly wrecked it a few times.  Many parts ride on in
other cars. 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I'm sure someone here will know, but they don't publish that info in the books.   Jeff 

Every Service manual I have does show where the various Serial Numbers on the major components.

Cadillac shows it for the VIN, Engine, Transmission, Radio, Guidematic, Twilight Sentinal, ECU and  A/C Compressor

Bruce.

[T.Skytte]

Hi everybody,

Thanks for all your replies.

I do have a 1977 service manual and I bought the 1979 service manual already but still waiting for it to arrive (it may take weeks).   

In the 1977 manual it shows all the locations of numbers, except for the chassis...   
It just seems odd that there wouldn't be any chassis number at all maybe


Best regards

[bcroe]

For maintaining 70s EFI cars I recommend having the blue & white book:
CADILLAC ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION DIAGNOSIS Manual 1099984 /
S-1453.  Its usually available on EB*y, i have some extra copies.  Get a
paper book, not a CD.

In order to properly service that car, you should have at least the 1979
CADILLAC SERVICE MANUAL, Cat No. S-1640.  Another, 1979
ELDORADO ELECTRICAL TROUBLESHOOTING MANUAL.  The front
cover seems to peel, but its good inside.  Bruce Roe

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Hi everybody,

Thanks for all your replies.

I do have a 1977 service manual and I bought the 1979 service manual already but still waiting for it to arrive (it may take weeks).   

In the 1977 manual it shows all the locations of numbers, except for the chassis...   
It just seems odd that there wouldn't be any chassis number at all maybe


Best regards

Tobias,
The reason the manual doesn't say anything about a frame # is that there is NO frame #. Plain & simple. Show that overly concerned Kustoms guy the info in the 77 book. Tell him it's going to be the same in the 79 book!! While he's wasting time with you a whole container of drugs has been smuggled in. LOL!
He must have been trained in Australia. LOL! Good Luck!
Bob

[bcroe]

Tobias,
The reason the manual doesn't say anything about a frame # is that there is NO frame #. Plain & simple. Show that overly concerned Kustoms guy the info in the 77 book. Tell him it's going to be the same in the 79 book!!   Bob 

I'm looking at 2A-1, 2A-2 in my 77 Cad book, it shows IDENTIFICATION TAG on
the frame.  Same in my 79 book.  Is this NOT related to the VIN?  If so, what
page has the note saying there is no VIN stamp? 

I remember they used to talk about the LAW checking hidden numbers to find
stolen cars, they wouldn't let anyone else know about them.  Maybe that is
another thing that just went away later, to save money.    Bruce Roe

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Yes, thats what I was told. It is stamped on there somewhere, just need ti find out where. Maybe have the custims guy talk to a police department in the u.s, or US customs for the secret place.
Jeff

[m-mman]

There are a series of books that have been published by the National Auto Theft Bureau (NATB). An organization supported by the insurance industry. The people who have a serious economic interest in recovering stolen cars.

These books show ALL the various identification numbers on every car. Including both the complete VINs and the partial unit sequence numbers and the locations where these numbers could be found.  New copies were released each year and they pertained to cars made in the prior 10 or so years. Publication started in the 1940s at least.

So, the information exists. However . . . try finding a book.
They were never sold in stores and never made available to the general public. They were available (on a subscription basis) to law enforcement agencies only. The intended audience were the auto theft detectives. Old copies have survived and are quite informative. On rare occasions I have seen a few at swap meets or online. They always sell quickly.

But aside from any hidden numbers, during the 1970s and later, the dashboard number represents the actual Vehicle Identification Number for the car. A qualified inspector should look to see that has not been altered and that it is held in place using rosette rivets. The hidden numbers are only intended for situations where there is a belief that the dashboard number has been altered.

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

 Mr. Crabtree,
You are very correct.  Hopefully the OP can get his kustoms guy into the modern world. I tried to make it simple for him. Many responders  are giving conflicting posts. I have no idea what car Jeff R is talking about.
I'll make  no further comments.
Bob

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

It was my car. The dash vin was very hard to read and I thought I would just go to the hiway patrol to verify it and see about getting a replacement vin plate. I found out the info I posted and found out I could not do it so I so never went thru with it.
Jeff

[2manycars]

The numbers may not be readable just by looking. Case in point... I own a 1967 Camaro RS convertible. I totally stripped it in the mid 1980s, to include all of the paint on the cowl / firewall. Lo and behold, as I stripped the paint out, numbers started to become visible. It was the VIn, in at least three locations on the cowl alone. They were all filled in and painted over. You would NEVER see them without stripping the area. I had owned the car for several years, and had already sanded and painted those areas before, and never spotted those numbers. I cannot remember now if it was also on the front subframe or not. (Camaros are hybrid unibody / frame cars)

I read about a case once regarding a possibly stolen first generation Mustang. The police cut out an area of the rear wheelhouse, and checked the number that had been stamped on the layer beneath, and there was the original VIN.

It's probably on there someplace and filled in and painted over.

[2manycars]

Yes, thats what I was told. It is stamped on there somewhere, just need ti find out where. Maybe have the custims guy talk to a police department in the u.s, or US customs for the secret place.
Jeff

^^^ This right here.

[bcroe]

I own a 1967 Camaro RS convertible. I totally stripped it in the mid 1980s, to include all of the paint on the cowl / firewall. Lo and behold, as I stripped the paint out, numbers started to become visible. It was the VIn, in at least three locations on the cowl alone. They were all filled in and painted over. You would NEVER see them without stripping the area.
I read about a case once regarding a possibly stolen first generation Mustang. The police cut out an area of the rear wheelhouse, and checked the number that had been stamped on the layer beneath, and there was the original VIN.
It's probably on there someplace and filled in and painted over. 

So they did it in the 60s.  And at one time we got 5mph bumpers (on every
car I own).  That is no proof they are still doing it.  If you guys don't resolve
this, I'm going to have to take a 79 and strip down every last scrap of metal
on it (before its recycled).  Bruce Roe

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Do you want a hand?   I love seeing how vehicles are constructed.

I just stripped down a Holden Vectra and boy, was I surprised just how well this vehicle was built.   The thickness of the metal was mind-blowing.   As in really thick in parts which required strength, and really thin in other places were I thought it needed to be stronger.

Bruce.

[bcroe]

Do you want a hand?   I love seeing how vehicles are constructed.
I just stripped down a Holden Vectra and boy, was I surprised just how well this vehicle was built.   The thickness of the metal was mind-blowing.   As in really thick in parts which required strength, and really thin in other places were I thought it needed to be stronger.
Bruce.

You can run the gas torch.  I usually use an electric welder (I have free electricity). 
Bruce Roe

[m-mman]

It may sound gross but identifying a car is very similar to identifying a dead body.

If they died suddenly and the body is is good shape and you reasonably know who they were, then a simple visual ID will suffice.
If there was substantial trauma and there is no ID and some question about who they were then the coroner will use fingerprints
If the body was badly burned or heavily decomposed and there is a bigger question about who the person was then they use dental records from missing persons reports that are on file to compare to the remains
If it is a real mystery and the remains consist of only a few bone scraps then it is time for DNA analysis BUT you need a DNA donation from a possible family member to compare to the remains. . . .

A coroner does NOT do dental comparisons or DNA analysis on every body they process!

If the car looks genuine, the papers seem in order and the official VIN attachment seems unaltered then you accept what you see.
If the car has no papers (maybe a hand written bill of sale?) and/or the official VIN just looks funny then you search for another (hidden) number.
If there is a serious question that the car might not be what it seems (this includes a reproduction VIN plate) then a good inspector WILL search for a secondary number.
If it is a high theft vehicle (Camaro? Corvettte? Hemi Cuda? Shelby?) then your hidden VINs WILL be found, cleaned and a tape lift will be made to document what was found.

I have friend who assists in checking in cars at major auctions. You would be shocked at the sloppy nonsense that people bring in. 

Convertibles with sedan serial numbers. (the convertible had been junked and the title papers had been turned in, so they simply pulled the plate off a nearby sedan that they did have a title for)

Home built cars (hot rod type things) that have NO NUMBERS anywhere on the thing. In one case the builder/seller said he didnt think that the "car" had to have any numbers anywhere on it, only the title did.

Cars where the (easily seen) stamped frame numbers have OBVIOUSLY been changed or swapped (and match the numbers on the title). but the secondary numbers dont match the stamped numbers.

These situations scream stolen, but in the old car world it commonly results when someone has a very rare, very rusty car and swaps the rare parts & numbers to a rust free more common version of that car. Ideally these cars are supposed to be immediately impounded and reported to the police but in reality the consignor is told to just get it off the property and bring it back when the numbers all match. (however they manage to do that)

We were discussing a 1979 Cadillac . . . . . If the papers look good, then peek through the windshield and let the car go.