1952 rear window cylinder hose access difficulty

[Jim Salmi #21340]

In trying to replace the left rear window cylinder on my '52 sedan, the connection between the rubber hose and steel tube line is completely frozen on.  Kroil, torch, etc. have failed.  In addition, the connection is located inside the door and is extremely difficult to reach with wrenches.  There is an access hole in the door, but it is rough (homemade looking) and doesn't look like it was done at the factory.  The other rear door has the same hole.  Were these holes done at the dealer?  Service manuals, Serviceman, etc. are silent on the subject of accessing this connection, and whether this was a warranty item.

It looks to me that I could either 1)  cut the steel tube behind the pillar trim piece, and replace it with two sections of tube, or 2)  take the pillar trim out completely, remove the front seat, and then hopefully wiggle the tube out, which looks almost impossible because of the clearances and bends required.

Has anyone had this problem and dealt with it successfully??  Thanks in advance.

[Jerome506237DX]

Hi Jim,

I never knew '52 Sedans had the Hydro Lectric system as an option. I recently replaced all cylinders, hoses and pump of my '50 Coupe de Ville, it's not a nice system to work on...

If I understand correctly, the steel tube from underneath your front seat ends inside your rear door? There it is connected with a rubber hose, which leads to the cylinder?

Jérôme

[Jim Salmi #21340]

The steel tube runs on the floor alongside the front seat to the "B" pillar, turns and then goes 3 inches or so up the pillar (behind the fabric trim piece), and then turns and goes through the pillar, under the hinge and into the door.  There is a black metal shield piece over it, between pillar and door.  About 2 inches after penetrating the door, the tube stops and there is a fitting.  From there, it is a rubber hose to the window cylinder.  It is that fitting that is frozen and difficult to access.

I'm sure I'm not the first one to have this issue.  Tomorrow, we are going to look at the possibility of just cutting the tube out altogether, and running some new "high tech" flexible hydraulic line from the front seat area all the way through to the cylinder.  The issue is going to be whether the diameter of the new line is too big to fit through the protective metal shield.

I think Cadillac had to change from metal to rubber right inside the door because running rigid line continuously would have meant that it scraped and against the inside of the door when it opened and closed.  The homemade hole leads me to think maybe this particular car got a batch of rear doors that somebody forgot to put access holes in, and they just dealt with it at the assembly line.  I'd be curious if others have seen this hole on their 50-52 rear doors.

g

[Jerome506237DX]

I have no experience with rear doors, I can only tell you that the front doors of my '50 Coupe de Ville have steel lines which run from the pump and end inside the car. Hydraulic hoses run from inside the door through the "A" pillar and connect with the steel line inside the car. Rear windows also have a hydraulic hose which runs through the body panel. Your suggestion to delete the steel line,if possible, souds like a good idea to me.

I thought this was a good read on Hydro Lectric...
http://www.antiqueolds.org/PDF/hydro-electric.pdf

I hope you already know that the Hydro Lectric system originally was filled with brake fluid? Brake fluid is also excellent paint stripper! Be careful when you disconnect hoses! I changed to ATF dexron3. You can only do this when you are positive that your hoses and pump can handle ATF. That's why I changed the entire system, less the steel lines.
(All of this is described in the link above)

I'm sorry I can't be of more help.

Good luck!

Jérôme

[Philippe M. Ruel]

If I remember well, the access holes on my car look ugly, like having been made by torching. They are hidden by unpainted steel plates screwed on the inner door panel.

the connection between the rubber hose and steel tube line is completely frozen on.  Kroil, torch, etc. have failed.

Did you use a pair of flare nut wrenches instead of ordinary flat wrenches - or worse, pliers or vise grips ? Tube connector is steel but hose connector is brass, the period low-friction material. It should come with little effort using the proper tools.

2)  take the pillar trim out completely, remove the front seat, and then hopefully wiggle the tube out, which looks almost impossible because of the clearances and bends required.

Remember that it was put in place some day.
Removing it requires some ingenuity and care, but I have removed it on my car - and put back into place. The hose had been separated before, so I don't know if it can be done with the hose connector attached.

[jdemerson]

The steel tube runs on the floor alongside the front seat to the "B" pillar, turns and then goes 3 inches or so up the pillar (behind the fabric trim piece), and then turns and goes through the pillar, under the hinge and into the door.  There is a black metal shield piece over it, between pillar and door.  About 2 inches after penetrating the door, the tube stops and there is a fitting.  From there, it is a rubber hose to the window cylinder.  It is that fitting that is frozen and difficult to access.

I'm sure I'm not the first one to have this issue.  Tomorrow, we are going to look at the possibility of just cutting the tube out altogether, and running some new "high tech" flexible hydraulic line from the front seat area all the way through to the cylinder.  The issue is going to be whether the diameter of the new line is too big to fit through the protective metal shield.

I think Cadillac had to change from metal to rubber right inside the door because running rigid line continuously would have meant that it scraped and against the inside of the door when it opened and closed.  The homemade hole leads me to think maybe this particular car got a batch of rear doors that somebody forgot to put access holes in, and they just dealt with it at the assembly line.  I'd be curious if others have seen this hole on their 50-52 rear doors.

g

Jim,

My car is 1952 6219X so it came with the Hydro Lectric system. Most 1952 Series 62 sedans were 6219 and did not have the hydraulic windows/seat. Of course all convertibles and Coupe DeVilles DID.

My car has a black metal flange that goes from the B pillar into the door (it is attached to the door) at a point midway between the two door hinges. My hydraulic system was completely rebuilt with all new parts from Hydro Lectric back in 1999, long before I got the car. The receipts show a parts and labor cost over $1000 even in 1999. Has your system ever been rebuilt? In an ideal world I'd rebuild it and change to ATF instead of brake fluid.

I have not removed my inside door panels so I cannot see the access holes you are referring to. IF they are not factory original, then I'd guess that your doors may have come from a 6219 without the hydraulic windows. But I would have thought that all 1952 Cadillac rear doors would have had those cutouts, irrespective of whether the car happened to have the power windows.  Strange...

Jerome,  thank you for this link: http://www.antiqueolds.org/PDF/hydro-electric.pdf
I had never seen that document and it is really excellent and I've downloaded it.

Jim, sorry I can't help more. Please let us all know how this turns out for you.

John Emerson
1952 Cadillac 6219X