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1957 Mushy Brakes

Started by 60eldo, October 13, 2016, 09:16:11 PM

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60eldo

    Well I just installed new shoes, master cyl. wheel cyls. bled the brakes and pedal was firm. Today I tryed the car in my driveway and the pedal got spongy and went down to about 2 in from the floor. Any thoughts,,Oh I almost forgot, I dont have a power booster, just a master
Jon. Klu

Maynard Krebs

Does your car have hydraulic brake hoses?

60eldo

Jon. Klu

Rod Dahlgren #19496

To be clear: your 57 does not have the original remote hydrovac brake unit? IN OTHER WORDS, HAS someone removed the remote-mounted original 1957 ONLY, power assist unit? 
Did You Drive Your Cadillac Today?

60eldo

   Yes, I got it like this
Jon. Klu

60eldo

  So if I end up needing a booster, is there better way to go than the hydrovac, I hear they are not the best. Has anyone upgraded to a booster that is easy to install and functions good
Jon. Klu

wbdeford

What kind of master cylinder do you have now?  Single system or dual?  I don't know how you'd even begin to use a 58 master without the accompanying booster, so guessing there would be a similar issue with 57.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

wbdeford

Some masters are very difficult to fully bleed....are you sure you got all the air out?
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

60eldo

  The master is single feed 1957 original rebiult and sleeved,,no booster
Jon. Klu

60eldo

  OK now after driving around only about 1/4 mile, the pedal when I apply is going to the floor so we adjusted the shoes again, no difference. Should I buy a booster?  Is that my problem here?
Jon. Klu

35-709

#10
Sounds to me like the master cylinder is bad or you still have (or have gotten) air in the system.  Have you checked the fluid level in the master and checked carefully for leaks that could have drained the master's fluid out? 
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

60eldo

   Yes I checked the resevour and its full, no leaks. I just want to know,,,,can I run this car with no booster and the brakes will function ok or,,,do I need a booster
Jon. Klu

savemy67

Hello Johnny,

Whether your car has a power brake booster or no booster, the brake pedal should not go to the floor upon brake application.  So, I don't think the problem with your car is the lack of a booster.  You should be able to drive your car without a booster, but I think you do have some other problem with your brakes.

A master cylinder can be defective without leaking externally.  When you rebuilt the brakes, did you re-install the star adjusters from whence they came?  Did you have a helper when bleeding the brakes?  Which wheel was bled first?  You may want to review each step of your brake rebuild, and compare the procedure to that in the shop manual  to determine if and where a problem may have been overlooked.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

60eldo

#13
   Thanks,,, I installed the old adjusters, I dont know what to do now, Im really lost, as far as bleeding we started with the right rear, then left rear, then right front, then left front. So are you saying that a 57 cadillac should brake ok with no booster?
Jon. Klu

35-709

The booster will greatly reduce the pressure you need to exert on the brake pedal to stop the car.  But cars were built for many years before and after your '57 without boosters.  Your stopping distances may be longer and your leg muscles will be stronger (or they better be) but the car should have a firm pedal with or without the booster.  I don't know what your problem is but I am still suspect of the master cylinder.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

60eldo

#15
    Im starting to think the master too, and I will tell you why. Its rebuilt and we bench bled it and fliud came out strong. Then after installing it I needed to take it out so I thought to bleed it again. When we did I noticed that more air than fluid was coming out and I thought at that time,  SOMETHINGS WRONG HERE. Again looking at the manuel, all 57s came with power brakes, so maybe this master wasnt designed to work on its own.
Jon. Klu

wbdeford

Do you have any pictures of your master you can post?
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

60eldo

yes,,,Im thinking right now to take it out and re bleed?
Jon. Klu

35-709

Since you've already bled it twice, had a firm pedal, and then lost it all, my opinion is that it has more of a problem than bleeding for a 3rd time will solve.  But, nothing like being sure you have covered the bases thoroughly.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

60eldo

 Ok I just took out the master and put it in my vice to check it and it appears fine,,Im Very frustrated, if I put it back in should I bleed the system again?  thanks for your help by the way
Jon. Klu