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59 cad jetaway transmisson

Started by gene harl, October 19, 2016, 08:30:02 PM

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gene harl

hello to someone smarter than me,,,jetaway trans has no reverse, drives forward when placed    in reverse,,, I have it apart and can find nothing wrong ,,, it happed in one moment when moving it around the shop,,, any ideas.. (maybe I can't  see the forest for  the trees)
   Gene Harl        CLC22406

Roger Zimmermann

It could be the front sprag clutch slipping.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Steve Passmore

I had mine go exactly the same some years ago. There's a large cover on the back of the transmission which has 'Just' the reverse piston and seal in it and mine had torn the seal out. The seal is about 7" in diameter and very skinny. Its possible to replace this without taking the transmission out. I did but you would need a seal kit.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

wbdeford

The shop manual doesn't even list this condition.  Are you sure the transmission lever is all the way into Reverse?  Maybe the shifter is on R, but the transmission is still on L.

Did it behave as if you were in a normal 1st speed, or was it hard to move the car at all?

There are two main differences between 1st speed and reverse--Neutral clutch is applied and Reverse clutch is released in 1st.  Neutral clutch is released and Reverse clutch is applied in reverse.  Overrun (Low) Band is also applied in L, so that would have to release also for you to get Reverse.  If there is a problem releasing the Neutral clutch or Overrun Band, the car would tend to stall.  The manual says "car may move but will not roll freely". 

(A slipping front sprag would cause problems getting the car to drive at all.  Without the front sprag, the front unit would be in Neutral all the time.  By design, the front unit can never be in Neutral when it is working properly.)
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

gene harl

 Thank's guys for the reply ,,,  I put a rebuild kit in it in  the process of rebuilding the whole car. drove it 2 or 3 miles , worked good,, it quit right in the shop,, I now have out and all apart,, can't see any thing wrong,, will  look at all of your suggestion's .  shop manual is no help...
      Gene

Roger Zimmermann

Have a look at the page 6-12 from the '59 shop manual and compare what is on or off in "LO" (first speed) resp. "R":

The controlled coupling is empty in both cases
the front sprag is ON in both cases
the overrun clutch is ON in LO and OFF in R
the neutral clutch is ON in LO and OFF in R
the rear sprag is ON in both cases
the rear clutch is OFF in both cases
the overrun band is ON in LO and OFF in R
the reverse cone clutch is OFF in LO and ON in R

Of course, we don't know if the car was driving correctly in D. I would anyway test the sprags; maybe one was installed the wrong way, it's very easy to do so.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

wbdeford

With so many differences between LO and R, that is why it seems likely that the transmission isn't really in Reverse--that the linkage isn't quite getting it there.

When you were building it, did you test the clutches with compressed air?  With the valve body off, you should be able to force compressed air into the corresponding oil passage and hear the clutch apply and release when you take away the air pressure, and also turn the flywheel/front unit by hand and see the correct direction of rotation of the output shaft.

If the front sprag is in backward you will get nothing but Neutral.  If front sprag is correctly installed and rear is in backward, you will have Neutral until you try to put it Reverse, when it will lock up and stall.

The front sprag's job is prevent the front unit sun gear from ever turning counter-clockwise.  The rear sprag's job is to prevent the rear unit internal gear and drum from ever turning counter-clockwise *with respect to the neutral clutch plates*.  That is, whenever the Neutral clutch is applied (all forward speeds), the rear unit internal gear cannot turn counter-clockwise.  When the Neutral clutch is released (Neutral, Park, and Reverse), the rear unit drum can turn counterclockwise.

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on October 21, 2016, 02:32:07 AM
Have a look at the page 6-12 from the '59 shop manual and compare what is on or off in "LO" (first speed) resp. "R":

The controlled coupling is empty in both cases
the front sprag is ON in both cases
the overrun clutch is ON in LO and OFF in R
the neutral clutch is ON in LO and OFF in R
the rear sprag is ON in both cases
the rear clutch is OFF in both cases
the overrun band is ON in LO and OFF in R
the reverse cone clutch is OFF in LO and ON in R

Of course, we don't know if the car was driving correctly in D. I would anyway test the sprags; maybe one was installed the wrong way, it's very easy to do so.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville