Ice and snow performance on modern cars and tires

[TJ Hopland]

What has been your experience with newer cars and tires in the snow and ice?

I have had a lot of different styles and brands of cars over the years and always lived in the same place where we have to deal with snow and ice in the winter.   I have not had that many 4x4's or AWD stuff, usually 2wd of one form or another and usually cars.  Till recently I never really felt I had any issues in the winter.   I do remember one embarrassing hill climb in my 78 CDV that didn't have a limited slip but it looked like not much was going up that hill that day so I didn't feel too bad.  At the same time I had that car I also had a Roadmaster wagon with a working limited slip and that made enough difference that I now fix or install those in my RWD stuff that is going to be driven in the winter.    My Suburban has it and I find I hardly ever have to go to 4x4, and when I do the handling is almost worse in some ways.   

Anyway more to the point of the post.    I have a typical modern smallerish car that has the deluxe package that included larger rims which means lower profile tire.   It also has some sort of active traction control so I figured it would be at least average in the snow.   Its by far the worst car I have ever tried to drive in the snow.   At the time my winter cars were this one and the 80 eldo.   The Eldo had nothing for traction other than a heavy diesel engine over the drive wheels.   If it had ABS it would have been a far superior car to drive in the winter.    Talked to the dealer and they recommended 'winter' tires.   Did some reading and talked to tire shops and found out that these days its not just the 'performance' cars that people are doing the winter tires on its also the 'cheap' cars.    The second winter I ended up buying the winter tires from the dealer with standard factory steel rims which were one size smaller and it made a huge difference.   

Daughter has a similar car to mine with the same model Continental tire and she says she doesn't think she has any issues in the winter.   This summer I got new supposedly better all around Continental tires for the regular tires and wondered if they were going to be better than the OE tires that came on the car on the ice.   Yesterday we got our first hint of ice and snow and they were still terrible.   This got me wondering could just that extra inch of sidewall have a big effect on the ice traction?

The winter tires I am talking about are the ones where at room temp the tread is very soft and sticky so you can't run them in the summer or they would wear too fast.    Even at say 40*F they kinda feel like you are low on air they are so soft.

My previous 'new' car to this one was a Dodge Magnum R/T so RWD, excess horsepower, and considered to be a somewhat performance car in the handling department so it had fairly wide low profile tires on it.   I was very worried about that car in the winter but it turned out to be one of the best I ever had.  That thing had no issues with snow or ice.   Many trips the little traction light on the dash never went off so it was apparently working hard at keeping me in control but it worked.   For those that don't know that car it was the station wagon version of the Charger and one of the first big joint projects in the Mercedes Chrysler era.   I later learned when looking at 80's Mercedes that that car was a lot more Mercedes than Chrysler.   Must have been that cold climate Autobahn experience? 

   

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

My experience driving in snow/icy conditions was back in December 1963.  I did it once in the mountains near Flagstaff AZ, and it was then and there I decided that I did not want to do it again, regardless of vehicle, tires, etc.
LOL
Greg Surfas

[TJ Hopland]

I have been told that many modern cars, especially the cheap ones have a suspension design that basically requires the alignment to be 'off' to get decent handling.   This makes the tires wear out fast which on cheap cars people complained about so the fix was to go to a much harder tire that wears a lot longer.   Harder tire kills the ride but hey you should not have bought a cheap car if you care about the ride.   Harder tire also kills the snow and ice performance?   But hey who cares, what percentage of car buyers have to deal with snow and ice?   And those people will have the option to move somewhere warmer or buy winter tires?

[7gen]

Where I live, we get just about 300 inches of snow each year. Lake effect snow, with lots of whiteouts. For those in warmer climes, whiteouts are snow falling so fast, with wind whipping it, that it is like being inside a carton of milk. You lose all sense of where you are and often cannot see the end of your hood. We slow down some for these. Old joke - do you know how to drive in a whiteout? Stick your head out the window and if it hits a snowbank, you are too far left.

I used to try to run all seasons all year. No more. I use a four dedicated snow tires and it makes a world of difference. All seasons are too hard for snow and ice. Even some brands of "snow" tires are too hard, such as Michelins. Some cars, though, are not balanced enough for good performance in the snow. I had a Jetta that you could push snow with the front bumper without a problem. It got me home through a snowburst - 5 inches of snow in one hour (kept it up for 8 hours, though it tapered off to 3 inches per hour after that). My Civics, not so much.

[chrisntam]

Come to Texas (Dallas/San Antone) and you won't worry about snow.  When we get a dusting, the whole city basically shuts down.   

[Scot Minesinger]

Growing up in Cleveland it was a pleasure to have enjoyed the rich experience of snow driving.  My Dad sending me ( a 17 year old) down to Ashland, OH (75 miles SW of Cleveland) to pick up his Mother for Christmas during blizzards, was just normal in 1978.  Donuts in my 1968 Thunderbird may have seemed reckless to onlookers, but learned a lot.  I could go no and on about this.  It all comes don to the driver much more than the tires or drivetrain.  I have never been stuck due to ice and snow in a RWD car for four decades now.  Here in VA where it snows twice a year, you see many more 4WD vehicles in the ditch during snow because they don't understand that 4WD only helps you gain traction to accelerate on ice (or any other slippery lose surface), not steer or brake any better than all the rest of the cars on the road.  Learning to drive in ice and snow was the sliver lining to growing up in Cleveland where most 1970/1980 era cars had rust holes after 3 or 4 years.

I buy all seasons and never have an issue on any of my RWD sedans, and even on my 4WD trucks.  Refuse to drive a FWD or all wheel drive with FWD bias.  If I lived in a 300 inch snow a year area, may buy the snow tires though.

[Dan LeBlanc]

Living here in the Great White North, we know snow tires are a must.

The problem is, tires marked as all season are really a 3 season tire. The rubber compounds are harder to make them last longer on hot dry pavement. This means that below 45 °F they are really hard and lose their grip. Plus the lugs are not deep or wide enough to clean out the snow.  Combine a hard, plugged up tire on snow and ice and you're screwed.

Usually, in these parts you can tell the drivers with and without winter tires.

I keep a dedicated set of steel rims with winter tires. The bonus is reduced wear on your other tires and keeps your alloys looking new.

I used to run all season tires until I ran my first set of winters. I never went back.

In Quebec, it's illegal to run all season tires in winter, and all major insurers in Canada offer a 10% discount on your premium if you have winter tires. We are that serious about them here.

[cadillacmike68]

I grew up in the northeast and still visit occasionally. I had a pair of studded michelin snow tires for my 1970 Fleetwood, and hever had problems with that car.

Reports on the 1993-93 Fleetwoods stated that that car with its 235-70-15 tires with all speed traction control and 4 wheel ABS allowed it to plow through most anything, But I haven't (and won't!) take my 1996 up north in the winter.

The problem with most new all season tires is that they are made for durability; their snow traction is terrible. And their wet traction isn't much better. They are a low performance compromise at best. You are much better off with two sets of tires, a "summer tire" set, which is really 3 seasons, great in everything except snow, and a "winter" set.

[Carl Fielding]

Right , "Cadillac". Right you are. Those mid '90s F'wood B'hogs flat get it on in snow. Three years ago I spent the night in Eugene , OR. , headed to the Bugatti exhibit at the Mullin Automotive Museum in Oxnard , CA. Intended to go over Willamette pass next day , and then to try to keep between 85 - 100+ as much as possible through familiar wide open spaces. Longer , but gets you down South in less time than I-5. Velocity , "Cadillac". That's the trick. Only time I ever had it in low traction. Fresh snow. A huge empty parking lot without obstacles was proving ground. Put that thing out of shape every way possible. It was incredibly well balanced and predictable , easy to throttle steer in a 4 wheel drift. Fun too ! I was almost 70 at the time , and it really brought out the jackass kid in me. Now , I'm running high pressure rubber (44 psi at max load) , freeway flyer tread on them . "'Kookies" at right around 40 psi for the trip. So I start over the pass. Found I had just the right pressure for the job at hand. Real nice plowed compact snow. No trouble keeping 5 over unless temporarily detained by mortals in lesser rigs. Driving fast in reduced and potentially variable traction takes a lot of experience and concentration, and constant traction monitoring. Brakes : frequent locking 'em up and analyzing your grip. Drift , throttle steer , give it just a little more gas , adjust your recovery. As I say FUN ! You absolutely have to constantly play with it , as traction may change , and you must be ready if it does. Long line of frustrated slow cars being held up by a perhaps 5 ton truck going about 15 or so. No one dares to pass. But , ahhh , um , yeah. You know me. So I start CAREFULLY working my way up the line. Winding , climbing mountain road. You have to plan far ahead whenever you pass , in snow much more so. Momentum , drift , safety escape routes , visibility. You absolutely have no right putting anyone at risk , and if you don't know what you are doing , limp along with the dogs. To build momentum , you must hold far behind , and then , when the opportunity presents itself , get the speed well up for your next advancement. You want to get it over with quickly. At just such a point , I get tagged by radar for 60 in a 50. Good guy , simple 10 over , with no aggravating factors for conditions. I let him write it first , before setting his mind at ease by revealing to him who I am. Guess he figured anyone dancing as I was must know what he was doing. Right "Cadillac" ? Right indeed. Those "Hogs" HANDLE in the snow ! By the way , I made up the delay later in the wide open. That is when I found out fuel cutoff is at 107 in that thing. So I held 106. Safe travels this holiday season , all. Take it easy unless you know how not to. SPEED KILLS.  - "CC"

[dadscad]

Best snow/ ice tire I found is the Goodyear triple tread. I had them on the wife's SUV and my pickup, neither of us missed a day of work whether the roads were covered in ice or snow. Each of our commutes was 40 miles one way. Glad we're retired now and don't have to go out in it unless we want to.

[fishnjim]

I think you just have to know how to drive in the snow regardless of vehicle and tires.   In extreme conditions, act accordingly and control your momentum.   I was best driving my 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 in the snow with M&S tires.   Snow, like mud, has to be able to clean from the treads as they turn so you don't end with a smooth traction surface.   Studs, if allowed, are needed on ice.
I'm retired and don't do snow anymore.   Best snow driving tires you can do...avoid.

[WTL]

I once got caught by 4 inches of snow...in Baton Rouge.  Picked up how to handle it quick, in an 07 mercedes.  The biggest trouble was keeping a distance from other cars.  Didn't trust the cajuns, not all of them seemed to care about best winter driving practices.

Haven't seen my 69 Fleetwood yet in it, although Ive liked the American Classic tires in wet weather.  Doesn't seem to hydroplane easily.