Thinking about this '73 Fleetwood... Any opinions?

[J.C.]

Hi, Guys,

I'm thinking about buying this '73 Fleetwood.  I went to look at it.  It's pretty nice but I don't think it's the 100-point car the seller claims it is - and he won't let it go for a dollar less than $24,000.  The car has some problems.  (1) Somebody put a USB plug in the ashtray so the lighters don't work.  (2) The steering wheel is breaking apart at the seams, not from damage, just old age.  (3) The steering wheel shakes when the car is being driven, even at low speeds.  (4) The power windows open and close but when you close the doors, you loudly hear the windows clacking around inside the doors.  (5) The rear-end sits too high - the seller says he'll fix it and that it's because the new suspension there wasn't adjusted properly.  (6) The hood ornament seems slightly crooked.  (7)  And am I right in thinking that $24,000 is an awfully high price?  He's tried to sell it on eBay two or three times with a $24,000 reserve - no takers.  But, still, the car is pretty darn nice.  He says it has only 11,000 miles on it.  Here's a link:

http://www.mjcclassiccars.com/1973-cadillac-fleetwood-2/

By the way, I've heard people say stuff about pollution controls with these cars but TO ME the car doesn't feel even remotely underpowered. 

What do you think?  Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

J.C.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

For $24K, a 1973 Fleetwood Brougham should be 99.9% perfect - and black. 

Also the standup type hood ornament was added at some point - it is correctable but you'd need to find the end piece of the centerline hood strip.

While it does appear exceptional overall, I would count this car for no more than the mid teens - assuming it clears a whole bunch more hurdles beyond what can be seen and what is known. I would especially want to examine closely the vinyl roof at base of the rear window for any signs of bubbling and/or rust repair and that includes in the area of the garnish molding itself.

Do you have an eye for spotting paintwork and/or body work? If not, bring a buddy who does.

Also check the bottom of the front fender in the strip of exposed painted area between the the two lower body side rocker moldings. Very common rot area on 71-76 Cadillac with these moldings.

ALL equipment should be in perfect working order as well. Excuses for this, that and the other is not acceptable for a $24,000 '73 Fleetwood under any circumstances, let alone a green one.   

I hope this is not being offered by our "famous favorite" in Lakeland FL. If so, proceed with EXTREME caution.

[TJ Hopland]

It does look nice.  Has all the door rubber been replaced or is it just in good shape?  It looks good in the photos.   

I could not see the other photos,  it said not found then asked me for various logins or to sign up for something.   

I have not really been following this type of car value wise but my gut says that is way too high too especially given the color and number of doors.   Teens seem reasonable given that it does look nice.   Higher I would want good documentation and other evidence to prove a lot of stuff has been done fairly recently so its 100% ready to roll.   I'm thinking $20k in receipts for recent work kind of thing.    Without that sort of thing it could turn out to be a nice looking old car that is going to need $10k in stuff to keep it going.     

Suspension needing adjusting?  Air leveling was standard on the Fleetwood I presume?  If so then I would be asking more about what was replaced. 

What is the red wire that looks out of place near the alternator?   Is it the same wire back by the brake booster and running to the hood?   Ornament alarm that blows the horn?

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Ah yes....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1973-Cadillac-Fleetwood-Original-/192023142529?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2cb578a081%3Ag%3AbpQAAOSwXeJYEMGH&item=192023142529&nma=true&si=yNsZIA22CG7iiOpbO3O1rHfyz%252FI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[TJ Hopland]

Interesting that it went to $23.  Only 4 bidders and a for the most part spread out bidding times, hard to tell if they were real or not.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

If I had a dollar for every time a car offered by this particular seller was ostensibly bid up to within inches of the asking/BIN price, not get sold, become relisted, do practically the same money again...over & over & over....well you get the idea. 

[Scot Minesinger]

The rear suspension being too high and needing adjustment is to me more a potential untruth, an excuse for a poor repair, which do not plan to go into here.  Like Eric writes a 24k priced 1973 Fleetwood add should read "1973 triple black Fleetwood with leather, highly optioned, low miles - perfect - no excuses".  This is green and has things that you noticed that while seemly minor are expensive to fix; the steering wheel with parts and labor plus time (wait for restore) is a $700 item; the rear suspension could be a an over inflated air shock coupled with faulty ALC, rear spring not oriented correctly (laborious to correct), and etc. - another chunk of money and the windows - not cheap to correct.  Not saying the car is not worth buying, just it is way over priced.

I only trust a few car dealers that sell classic cars - most I do not trust.

e-bay bids mean nothing to me.  Friends of seller bid up the price so it will not sell for less than what owner wants.  Also on e-bay people bid up the price that do not even know the buyer for sport.  My last e-bay car sale, I had to write basically e-bay stinks for auctions, call me and we will work out a price, and the car sold for what I wanted as a result of a phone call form a real buyer near by.

If you want a nice Cadillac of the early 1970's I would try and buy it from a local individual, maybe a CLC member.

Good luck out there.

[35-709]

One more "agree" that the car is way overpriced --- even if you like green, which I do.  He's looking for a sucker that just wants a nice looking car and knows nothing about the mechanicals and believes everything he tells them.  If the steering wheel shakes (shimmys) at all speeds there is a bad tire(s), bent rim(s), very loose bearings, very loose lug nuts or something else unhealthy going on there.  An out of balance tire will give you a shimmy at highway speeds, usually 50 MPH and up but not at lower speeds unless something is really out of kilter.

FWIW, the NADA price guide says High Retail is $8600 for that car.  If perfect and that mileage is correct (how do you know), maybe low teens for an exceptional car.  That car does not appear to be it.     

[David Greenburg]

I agree that it looks very nice.  But even if the mileage is accurate, the price is way high for a post-'70 Fleetwood.  Also, the description says its a 500.  IIRC, '73 still had the 472.

[35-709]

"IIRC, '73 still had the 472"  Indeed it did.

Perhaps he was looking at the engine label and only seeing what he wanted to see.

[Gene Beaird]

Funny, back in about 1976, an uncle of mine offered our family his nice 1972 FWB for the price of traveling to California to drive it back to Texas. Sad that we didn't do that.

But I digress. I ask: why does someone show a Cadillac that had "ice cold A/C" with the windows down??  That, and all the RED wires to things that didn't have red wires going to them originally would cause some questions to be asked.

[60eldo]

    Hi,,just my opinion, those were ugly years 71-73, and not really sought after. Green,,,wrong color and interior too? Are you kidding me. Stay away from 61 to 64s also not a big ticket item. Get yourself a 57 or 59-60 a 67-68 eldo,,,, 76 Eldorado and watch your investment grow. Its a nice car but who wants em

[76eldo]

Way too expensive and way too green.

If you had a compelling reason like your family had the exact same car new, etc... then money isn't always the deciding factor.  However, your tastes may change or a situation may arise that may necessitate selling the car and it's not likely that you would ever get that money back.

Don't believe the low mileage claims on any car unless there is a trail of service receipts spread out over many years that will substantiate the low mileage.

I agree with Eric, mid-teens, but you would be better off to keep looking.

Brian

[J.C.]

I've decided to pass on this one, too.  This is the third classic I've looked into, so hopefully something better will come along.  I will say this: I really liked that the car is green - that was one of the reasons I was attracted to it.  I didn't know that its price should be even lower because of its green color and I didn't know that black Fleetwoods are the ones that hold value best.

As always, thanks for all your comments!

[Scot Minesinger]

Johnny,

I think the 71 thru 73 Cadillacs are a great look, and a collector given the choice would be better off with the RWD Cadillacs over the FWD Eldorados (1967-78 or maybe 81).  The Eldorados are nice but the FWD does complicate the maintenance.  We each have our own opinion.  Frankly, I could be happy with any Cadillac from 1959 thru 1979 - that is my favorite year range. 

John,

That dealer, you should be very careful.  He routed the exhaust under the rear axle of a 1971 Eldorado, and you could see it was all banged up from the bottom of axle hitting top of exhaust - a sure future failure.  I wrote him about this, and he replied that he would re-route it if I bought the car and he had done three others just like it.  Obviously he knows nothing about cars or purposely insults my intelligence.  Have never read anything positive about this seller, yet he remains.  I did see one of his cars for sale that I knew from up here in VA and might have bought if he did not try to "enhance" it.  Ultimately the cars speak for themselves.  Right now I'm not in the market to buy a classic.

Also, a unique color not offered much today is cool.  While I love my silver 1970 SDV, if it were not for the blue vinyl top and larger size it would blend in more, where as my red with white top (red on white really makes it pop-but most of time top is down) 1970 DVC does not blend in which is safer and more fun.  I see why you like green, and black blends in.  Black is the color in demand for FLeetwoods, just as it is for the 61-69 suicide door Lincolns.

[Chuck Patton]

Hello John

Glad to read you are interested in acquiring a Cadillac.  Eric and Brian are excellent evaluators.  If you were my client I would advise you to be patient.  The best Buying Season in the United States is December 26 to February 13.  John Doe HAS to sell his Cadillac because he spent too much money for Christmas.

[wrefakis]

If john doe has a special low mile Cadillac pre 1970 I am Santa

[chrisntam]

I like the green color.  Or gold.  They were the colors of the era.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I've decided to pass on this one, too.  This is the third classic I've looked into, so hopefully something better will come along.  I will say this: I really liked that the car is green - that was one of the reasons I was attracted to it.  I didn't know that its price should be even lower because of its green color and I didn't know that black Fleetwoods are the ones that hold value best.

As always, thanks for all your comments!

The effect of color(s) upon value cannot be underestimated in the collector car market, and black seldom fails to generate a minimum of 10% premium above the same in most other colors.  Of course this factor also must be weighed against many other variables in arriving at a proper valuation however 3x black or 2x black + red leather would add serious value over green.

In this particular example the color combination of black w/red leather could actually command as much as 1.5 - 2+ times the money of present color combination in the same condition.

[Dan LeBlanc]

I hope this is not being offered by our "famous favorite" in Lakeland FL. If so, proceed with EXTREME caution.

I'm a little late joining in this conversation, but, Eric, you're right - it's the Lakeland guy. 

About all I can say is do a BBB search on the seller.  You'll find enough information there.