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1956 Cadillac Engine Removal

Started by carguyblack, December 06, 2016, 10:04:18 AM

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carguyblack

I've finally decided that the engine noises and other issues are telling me it's time for a stent! I've taken the nose off the car, including the radiator support in preparation of an engine rebuild. The transmission has been working flawlessly so I was wondering if someone could advise if it would be better (easier) to leave the transmission in the car and remove the engine or take them both out as a unit?
Thanks for the tips.
Chuck Dykstra
Portage Michigan
1956 Sedan DeVille
Chuck Dykstra

1956 Sedan DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille (2 sold)
1957 Oldsmobile 98 (sold)
1989 Bonneville SSE

cadman56

If the front sheel metal and radiator support have been removed leave the transmission in the car.  Don't forget to support it from the floor so it doesn't drop down.  Be careful because the transmission cooler is under the bell housing.  Larry
1956 Cadillac Coupe deVille (sold)
1956 Cadillac Convertible (sold)
1956 Cadillac Eldorado Seville (sold)
1967 Cadillac Eldorado (sold)
1968 Cadillac Convertible (Sold)
1991 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham dElegance
Larry Blanchard CLC #5820

carguyblack

Thanks Larry, I will. Leaving the tranny where it is also lightens the load on the chain hoist and the lift. Man that stuff is heavy. Even the condensor unit from the a/c weighed a ton!
Chuck
Chuck Dykstra

1956 Sedan DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille (2 sold)
1957 Oldsmobile 98 (sold)
1989 Bonneville SSE

chrisntam

#3
Shouldn't you wait until the weather cools down a bit?   ;)

I hope you have a heated shop or garage you are working in!   8)

It's 50 here in Dallas and that's COLD!  My rule used to be at 45 degrees & above, I would work on the cars, now the temp has to be between 60 & 85, unless it's an emergency.  Below 45 was generally a no-go.

And the fun begins on the engine build!

8)
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

cadman56

My shop is heated and air conditioned. :)
1956 Cadillac Coupe deVille (sold)
1956 Cadillac Convertible (sold)
1956 Cadillac Eldorado Seville (sold)
1967 Cadillac Eldorado (sold)
1968 Cadillac Convertible (Sold)
1991 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham dElegance
Larry Blanchard CLC #5820

TJ Hopland

I like to pull them together when ever possible but it is a lot of weight and that car has a fair amount of space in front of the engine so a typical engine hoist will have to be extended and I would not trust about 90% of the hoists made in the last 20 years even if they say they can do it. 

One tip I have is to get the car supported so its not on the suspension.  It can be an extra pain in the butt to have the car come up as you remove the engine, especially if you are supporting the trans from the ground. 

Does a 56 cad have the 2 mounts on the side of the bell housing?  That makes it a little easier but you still need to support the tail.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

carguyblack

Good tips on the supporting of the car and transmission. I can get a cherry picker right snug to the engine from the front of the car now that the bumper on back has been removed, including the radiator support. I should have really good angles. As was yours, my concern is also with the tremendous weight on the lift and if my fingers can cross enough trusting the engineering and production from China.
I am fortunate to have a fully heated garage, but it is a regular house garage. When I'm ready to pick the engine out, I'll need to push the car out of the garage a bit in order to get the lift in there, then support the transmission and pull it all with the garage door open and the snow flying. It will be unpleasant as can be until it is out and I can shut the door and say a prayer of thanks for not getting crushed! Like you said, "Let the games begin!"
Chuck
Chuck Dykstra

1956 Sedan DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille (2 sold)
1957 Oldsmobile 98 (sold)
1989 Bonneville SSE

cadman56

It takes 'two men and a horse' to move just the transmission.  The engine/transmission assembly is on a 3 point suspension in the frame.  The rear mount is bolted to the tail shaft housing.  The front of the transmission is going to be extremely heavy.  You are going to have to have some very substantial rigging to support the front of the transmission if you leave it in the car.  The way you mention you will be pulling the engine, I don't know.  I have pulled several of these and I wish you lus of luck.  Larry
1956 Cadillac Coupe deVille (sold)
1956 Cadillac Convertible (sold)
1956 Cadillac Eldorado Seville (sold)
1967 Cadillac Eldorado (sold)
1968 Cadillac Convertible (Sold)
1991 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham dElegance
Larry Blanchard CLC #5820

Bobby B

Chuck,
I always try and pull them out together, even if the Trans is OK. For me, it just seems easier. Did the '47 Flathead with the Hydra-Matic attached, over 1200 lbs. worth.. In/Out by myself, with the 2 ton Cherry Picker. Make sure you have correctly rated chain for your application. Nothing to be afraid about, just be careful and use your head. Good Luck!
                                                                                                   Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

savemy67

Hello Chuck,

I agree with Bobby B, in that I find it easier to pull the engine and transmission as a unit.  I think there is less work not having to fabricate a support for the transmission kept in the car.  Plus, you can keep the transmission under roof, and still be able to roll the car when needed.

I think the '56's engine and transmission weight is much less than a flathead's 1200 pounds, and you can lighten the load further by removing the front mounted accessories, starter, manifold/carb, and cylinder heads.  Even though you have plenty of clearance, you may want to get a rotary tilt mechanism for your crane.  You may also want to consider machinery/lifting eye-bolts instead of regular eye-bolts.  Be safe.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

Bobby B

#10
Quote from: savemy67 on December 07, 2016, 09:18:00 PM
  You may also want to consider machinery/lifting eye-bolts instead of regular eye-bolts.
Christopher Winter

Yes, good idea. A good machine/tool supply will have them. I used Grade 8 Bolts on the block and a rated lifting eye on the trans...
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

carguyblack

Sound like I'll be pulling both! Thanks everyone for your valuable input. I sure want to be safe so I'll do a lot of checking with guys in the area for help along the way and in finding the most heavy duty lift and hardware. I did one of these before back in 2002 but what am I thinking now..... I'm 60 years old! I should have stuck with washing and waxing. Oh well, I'm committed now :P
Chuck
Chuck Dykstra

1956 Sedan DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille (2 sold)
1957 Oldsmobile 98 (sold)
1989 Bonneville SSE

TJ Hopland

Having all that stuff off the front including the bumper should help a lot for getting in there without having to extend the arm on the hoist plus you won't have to lift much. 

If you have to move the car keeping the trans in is much more difficult to support especially with how heavy those things are.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Bobby B

Quote from: TJ Hopland on December 07, 2016, 11:08:13 PM
Having all that stuff off the front including the bumper should help a lot for getting in there without having to extend the arm on the hoist plus you won't have to lift much. 

All good points.....The more you take off, the easier it is. It's almost a straight shot, not too bad of an angle if you get it balanced properly.
                                                                                                                                                      Booby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

cadman56

Wish I were 60 again.  Many yrs. ago.  Keeping the transmission with the engine is best the way you were going to have to do it.  Good luck.  Keep us posted on progress.  Larry
1956 Cadillac Coupe deVille (sold)
1956 Cadillac Convertible (sold)
1956 Cadillac Eldorado Seville (sold)
1967 Cadillac Eldorado (sold)
1968 Cadillac Convertible (Sold)
1991 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham dElegance
Larry Blanchard CLC #5820

Roger Zimmermann

I overhauled the engine from my '56 de Ville in 2001. I did like you, everything in front was removed, even the front fenders and hood! If I recall well, I pull the engine with the transmission.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

J. Gomez

Chuck,

There are multiple ways in accomplished the removal as others have noted above, and one key item is you would need to consider is space and the tools to perform the task at hand.

You mention you removed the front bumper and the radiator/condenser support so that will give you a good clearance, did you also removed the hood? ???

You mention you have an engine hoist (aka cheery picker) not sure if you’ve also have a leveler handy. ???

If you are removing both engine and tranny you will need a leveler to tilt the engine for the tranny to clear the firewall and the front cross member. You also need more floor space the move the engine hoist out with the tranny in place.

There is also the tight space between the front fenders if you leave the exhaust manifolds in place to maneuver the hoist around with both engine and tranny. 

I’ve removed mine a few times without the tranny with no problems once the oil pan cleared the front cross member  it was very easy to maneuver the hoist straight out without the extra heavy load.

Holding the tranny on the car;

I rig a piece of 2x4 with a chain under it bolted to the 2x4 and place it under the bell housing, I’ve used two “L” brackets at the ends (bottom) of the bell housing to the 2x4 for extra security and bolt the chain around the available holes on the chassis.

I currently have both engine and tranny out, the engine still on the stand and the tranny is on a creeper under the car (space is my main issue  :( ). I do not have the fenders, front bumper and radiator support installed so I’m considering in hoisting both engine and tranny in one piece. I have dollies on the wheels so moving the car around the shop is a bit easier without the extra load now.  ;)

I would need to make a temp stand to hold the engine so I could get the tranny bolted to the engine (I like the setup Bobby shows on his picture, thanks for sharing).  8)

But since the cold weather is upon us now this will be a very slow process for me, old bones just can’t tolerate cooler weather anymore.  ;D

Good luck on your endeavors..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

30326

Hi mate
Even if you don't need to overhaul the transmission you might want to clean and paint it as you probably will clean and paint the engine. Looks like you have made up your mind to pull both and that will be the best plan of action. Its a lot easier to separate the transmission from the engine when the set is out of the car.

Cheers

76eldo

If you are going to pull the engine only, use a floor jack to support the trans and see if you can lift it high enough to put a piece of angle iron across the frame to hold it up.

If you are pulling both, I would remove the starter and inspection cover and undo all of the convertor bolts.  Once you get the engine and trans out and sit it on the floor you can then just undo the bell housing bolts and separate the two.  Drain out all of the fluid from the trans AND convertor before or you will have a huge mess.

If you remove the engine only it's easier to get the engine on an engine stand.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

carguyblack

Hey, wait a minute! I thought I could do all  :-\this with a pliers, needle nose and a floor jack. As long as I put junk clothes on in case I got a little greasy, I thought I was good to go. :-\
I'm an "enthusiast". What that means is an enthusiast can dig themselves out of Guantanamo with a spoon, right?!
Certainly sounds like a big bite for me but I'm into this for the long haul. Heck, it's 5 months before it thaws again here in Michigan anyways!
Chuck
Chuck Dykstra

1956 Sedan DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille (2 sold)
1957 Oldsmobile 98 (sold)
1989 Bonneville SSE