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Key codes for 1941

Started by Yagi, December 10, 2016, 03:42:08 PM

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Yagi

Hello,

I am working on getting keys made for a 1941 6219 and have removed this lock cylinder from the glove box,

The trunk is still locked and I am curious as to what may be inside,

Does anyone know if a key code could be found somewhere on this cylinder? (I don't see anything on the outside)

Or will this require a visit to a local locksmith for a new key to be made?

Thank You,

Christopher D. Weiss


Steve Passmore

The centre section comes out of that lock barrel. Problem is you need the key inserted so you can turn it and extract. The number is inside.  You might find it different anyway than the trunk code.  I have never had a car yet where all the locks matched after 75 years.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

#2
Steve,
Sorry, but you're giving him incorrect information. As we've discussed on this board many times, you can NOT make a trunk key using the glove box lock. It's missing one of the tumblers.
He needs to find an old fashioned locksmith that can impression a key from the trunk handle. Or... he can buy the build sheet & it'll give him the correct code. Assuming of course its not been changed.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

bcroe

#3
As I recall, in later decades there is a special "tumbler" in the back of a
glove box lock.  You can reach in with the right hook and just pull the
center out.  With luck the key code is on it.  I don't know if any of this
applies to a 41. 

I don't do it that way.  I just swap all the locks with another set, that has
the same codes as my other 4 cars.  2 keys fit all. 
Bruce (took a locksmithing course) Roe

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

Our lawyer friends are whiting out the key codes on the built sheets now, Bob. Maybe going to a dealer per the suggestion of Allied-Vaughn would work but never did try it.  It would be sort of fun just to show everyone the ridiculousness of it all.
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

Steve Passmore

Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on December 10, 2016, 07:04:14 PM
Steve,
Sorry, but you're giving him incorrect information. As we've discussed on this board many times, you can NOT make a trunk key using the glove box lock. It's missing one of the tumblers.
He needs to find an old fashioned locksmith that can impression a key from the trunk handle. Or... he can buy the build sheet & it'll give him the correct code. Assuming of course its not been changed.
Bob

Sorry Bob, didn't know that,  never tried it. I did tell him it might not match and that's a real tall order "Find and old fashioned locksmith" as least here anyway :P
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

I was lucky enough to find an old lock smith who had the key set for GM that worked for '30's to just before the keys went to the steering column.

This was not high tech is was a set of keys on a huge ring. You inserted the keys one at a time till you found the correct one - then you could have a key made.

So I would check around and see if any locksmith might still have these.

After seeing the locksmith doing this I located a set and purchased. Used them a lot with the local club members.

The Johnny
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

Yagi

Everyone, thank you for the info!

I was about to have a key made but if it won't fit the trunk there's no point in doing so at this time. I did use a flashlight to look in the trunk from the space in the rear seat armrest. Saw a full military dufflebag, a few boxes, random auto parts and an old car radio from the era.

A local locksmith is able make a key if the cylinder is brought in for $30-40. However, they would need $200 to come to the vehicle and make one from the trunk handle.

I will just wait on this a bit and possibly get a keyed cylinder set on ebay for around 110$ to replace both.

bcroe

Quote from: John Washburn CLC 1067I was lucky enough to find an old lock smith who had the key set for GM that worked for '30's to just before the keys went to the steering column.
This was not high tech is was a set of keys on a huge ring. You inserted the keys one at a time till you found the correct one - then you could have a key made.

So I would check around and see if any locksmith might still have these.
After seeing the locksmith doing this I located a set and purchased. Used them a lot with the local club members.     The Johnny 

There are 6 positions on the length of a key, each may be cut to one of
four depths (more recently 5 depths).  That is 4096 possible keys.  But if
a key position was cut half way between depth 3 and 4 (3.5), it would work
pretty much on a lock cut for either. Or a cut of 1.5 works for a position of 1
or 2.  So 2 depths could cover a position, for 6 positions that is 2 to the 6th
power or 64 keys.  That set could be had for opening cars. 

I don't think copying a key from 64 that worked is a good idea, because
each position is half way to not working, with any lock wear.  Once things
are opened up, the actual 1 of 4096 code should be determined and used. 
Bruce Roe

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

Bruce,

Ok, but I have these keys for over 10 years and have been able to open all the Cadillacs I've tried it on. So guess I must have been lucky since all the keys we made off them also worked.

The Johnny
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

The Tassie Devil(le)

If you are carrying the big ring of keys around at night time, make sure you have a Locksmith Licence with you or the Constabulary will be asking you a LOT of questions.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Quote from: John Washburn CLC 1067 on December 11, 2016, 11:21:14 PM
Bruce,

Ok, but I have these keys for over 10 years and have been able to open all the Cadillacs I've tried it on. So guess I must have been lucky since all the keys we made off them also worked.

The Johnny
Johnny, thanks for posting, I've had the same experience.  I don't want this topic to be turned into a math lecture either. As I've said before if people don't have FIRST hand knowledge of the subject... don't respond!!
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Glen

#12
FYI Below is a clip from the 1968 shop manual.  It says there are only 2000 key combinations for the 68 model year. I would think 41 would be similar.   
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

bcroe

If you want a lock to continue to work after a lot of service and some
wear, it should be as accurate as possible at the beginning.  If its
rarely used, wear may not enter the picture.  In 35 years of service, I
eventually had to change out my ignition locks.  My previous key letter
code became unavailable, so I had to do all 5 to stay master keyed. 

At some year (68?) they decided to use a fifth level cut, expanding the
possible number of codes.  There were some restrictions: don't make the
deepest cut in positions too close to the handle, or the key may be too
weak and get twisted.  I don't have the details, but a new master ring
with 105 keys was issued.  Probably by now all this ancient stuff is on the
internet somewhere. 

I would wager the 2000 number is not accurate; reporters are frequently
in error.  Bruce Roe

harry s

I, like John & Bob have a master ring of keys. These keys are intended to fit up to and including 1966. I also have opened many locks and then had a key cut that worked. I agree the intention is to try and solve the "keyless" problem and not to theorize why it
can't be done.   Harry
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

Steve Passmore

Dang!  where do you guys find these master key sets?   I have several ignition and handle locks I would love to get a key for.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

harry s

Steve,
     There were two sets for sale on ebay recently. They sold in the $300 range.      Harry
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum