76 Eldo questions relating to Security System

[76eldo]

I'm reviving a 76 Eldo that has been parked for about 8 years.
Keys were lost.
Joe Caristo and I replaced the ignition switch. We did not replace the door cylinders yet.

The drivers door lock disarms the security system when you unlock the door with a key.  We have no door key so we can't disarm it.

We put a battery in it and at first it cranked for about 10 seconds but then the horn came on and it would no longer crank.

Do we have a bad starter and the insulator in the steering column was all cracked so that can be blowing the horn, or does this have anything to do with the alarm?

Does the alarm interrupt cranking of the engine and it seems like the horn should beep on and off, not constant.

I'm thinking we have a problem in the column and a bad solenoid or starter.

Fuses in the upper dash for the security system have been removed.

What's the deal here?

Thanks

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Brian,
It IS possible you have a manual reset starter lock out relay in the circuit.  Before you condemn anything, check for voltage at the "S" terminal on the solenoid when you turn the key to start with the gear selector in neutral or park.  The FSM has a good section on this system a good trouble shooting matrix, and even tells you how to repair the solid state controller; "factory exchange only".
Greg Surfas

[76eldo]

Joe removed the fuses behind the upper dash and we thought that this would eliminate the security system from the mix.

The car is still in the former owner's garage and we need to remove it asap.  The ignition lock replacement now makes it possible to pull it out of Park and turn the wheels to get it on a trailer.

Thanks,

Brian

[bcroe]

Looking at the 76 shop manual, I don't see a starter lockout relay.  It
appears the Security System electronic control box plugs into a lot
of stuff, monitoring activity and operating the horn & lights.  Perhaps
it could just be unplugged and run without it for a while.  Unplug horns? 

In any case I'd expect the starter to work.  If the engine was cranked
enough to build up oil pressure & turn off the oil light, I'd throw a
little gas into the intake and see if it starts.  If its fuel injected, there
could some more issues; these things can fail just sitting here. 
good luck, Bruce Roe

[76eldo]

Hi Bruce,

It's not injected.
I think we have a bad solenoid or starter and also the little plastic collar that always breaks when you take the column apart was in pieces. It must insulate something and may be the reason the horn is blowing. We did unplug the horns because they are so darn loud.

We will be pushing the car out of the garage and winch it up on the trailer. Once we get it back to the garage we will run the normal tests.

Thanks.

[Scot Minesinger]

The little plastic collar is for horn only.  If you fix that there is a better chance horn will operate properly.  It does not have anything to do with starting the car.  This was used from 1970 thru 1982 on most GM tilt wheels, hence it remains widely available today.  If you have a GM car in this year range it is a good idea to have a replacement on hand if it is likely that it is original.

To find out if the starter is good run battery voltage to solenoid (bypassing NSS and ignition), for just a second to find out if it cranks. 

[76eldo]

I'd like to buy a few of those plastic collars.

I realize that there are separate issues here.

I'm pretty sure that the starter or possibly the connection at the starter is bad. 

The car is sitting in a garage and the local temps are single digits right now.  Later this week it's going up into the 50's and I will go back with a few guys to push the car out of the garage and into the street.

Then it's up on the trailer and back to the shop.

The security system has no cranking lock out, and the horn should beep on-off-on-off, not a solid beep, so the horn problem is in the column.

I appreciate the info.

Brian

[bcroe]

To find out if the starter is good run battery voltage to solenoid (bypassing NSS and ignition), for just a second to find out if it cranks.   

You won't have to run it very far.  A screwdriver from the batt cable
on the solenoid, to the big fat pink wire term ought to do it.  Bruce Roe

[Scot Minesinger]

Brian,

e-mail me if you want the PN on that plastic "rose" piece in steering column, I have a spare or two with PN handy.  You can type it in on e-bay and numerous reasonable cost choices emerge. 

Scot

[dochawk]

The drivers door lock disarms the security system when you unlock the door with a key.  We have no door key so we can't disarm it.

I'm late to the party, but a locksmith can pop one out in a few minutes.

You may be able to do it yourself, too--you stick in a clean blank, wiggle, look where it's scratched, file those through with a triangular file, repeat.

Or, get new keys from GM . . .

hawk

[STS05lg]

 Brian, the factory security system on a 76 blows the horn constantly if activated. The weakest link in the system is the little plunger switch that is located on the drivers side of the radiator suppose. The plunger shaft can become corroded or bent, by the heavy hood or careless mechanic. The system does not, in my experience have a starter interrupt. Hope this helps.
Best, Lynn