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1963 Eldorado Interior Color Decode

Started by CadatonicState, January 08, 2017, 03:23:44 PM

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CadatonicState

Hi All - I bought a 1963 Cadillac Eldorado in Frost Red for a project.  The car has black interior in it and I feel it may have been born with something different.  The body tag is missing, so no help there.  At first I thought it was originally red leather because the steering wheel is completely red, but the dash pad is black and the lower dash is red (body color).  So far every car I’ve seen with a solid red steering wheel also had a solid red dash pad and red interior.  Then I thought maybe it was a white interior car, which from what I’ve read could be ordered with either a black or a red carpet.  It seems the white interiors w/black carpet cars had a black and white steering wheel. Could this have been a white interior w/red carpet?  Any chance this could have been born with a black interior?  Me says no because of the red wheel, but I turn to the gurus here to enlighten me.  Thanks.

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#1
Suggest ordering a build sheet for the car. It will provide all the information that would be contained in the Data Plate.

If it turns out the car had been Special Order, it is may be difficult ascertaining exactly how it left the factory.

Ordering & Information:

http://www.gmmediaarchive.com/?page=3

http://www.gmmediaarchive.com/?page=4



A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Greg Powers

Check with Jason Edge. He is the founder of the 1963/64 Club. The 63/34 group can give you any information you might need regarding decoding. They can also aid you with your restoration. - Greg
G.L. Powers>1954 Series 62 Sedan/1958 Fleetwood 60 Special-sold/1963 Series 62 Convertible-sold/1970 Fleetwood Brougham-sold/1994 Fleetwood Brougham/1971 Sedan Deville-sold/2000 Deville-sold/2001 DTS-sold/1976 Eldorado Convertible-sold/1983 Coupe Deville-sold/1990 Allante-sold/1990 and 1991 Brougham deElegance-sold/1992 Brougham-sold/Always looking!

CadatonicState

Thank you all!  I will reach out to Jason and also order a Vintage Vehicle Information report.

jdemerson

John,

You can download a copy of the 1963 Cadillac Data Book from the GM Historical Site and this is free. I skimmed through it and it has very detailed information on upholstery choices relating to body color for various models including Eldorado.

I found the following basic summary on Eldorado:

UPHOLSTERY SELECTIONS*
(Carpeting in shade of
same color except as noted)
10. WHITE NATURAL GRAIN LEATHER
(Black carpeting)
11. BLACK NATURAL GRAIN LEATHER
13. LIGHT BLUE NATURAL GRAIN LEATHER
14. SANDALWOOD NATURAL GRAIN LEATHER
15. PALOMINO NATURAL GRAIN LEATHER
16. BERYL NATURAL GRAIN LEATHER
17. EMERALD NATURAL GRAIN LEATHER
18. WHITE NATURAL GRAIN LEATHER
(Red carpeting)
19. RED NATURAL GRAIN LEATHER
*Add B after code number when ordering bucket seats

You might also check out this very valuable CLC resource:
http://www.rrrclc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/19631.pdf

Good luck.
John Emerson
John Emerson
Middlebury, Vermont
CLC member #26790
1952 Series 6219X
http://bit.ly/21AGnvn

russ austin

Don't forget www.1963caddyshack.com Lots of parts and info there, as well as jasons site.
R.Austin

CadatonicState

UPDATE: I have sent the request into the GM Media Archive folks.  Sadly, the bucket seats were loosely bolted in and I have since removed them to find that the car was originally a bench seat car.  The buckets were never fully installed, rather hanging on by the front bolt on each end of the bucket seat bolt holes.  I should have noticed the 6-way control panel but I got rose-colored glasses on this car  :-\.  Nice car regardless, though I will be buying the correct bench seat and selling off the black buckets with narra wood center console.

russ austin

#7
I have a complete bench seat from a 63 SDV. Power track and I do have the motor assembly.
R.Austin

CadatonicState

Quote from: russ austin on January 14, 2017, 09:58:45 AM
I have a complete bench seat from a 63 SDV. Power track and I do have the motor assembly.

Thanks Russ.  However, being a coupe I will need the forward folding back rests.  I’ll be on the lookout.  Looks like bucket seats are tough to find, so hopefully I can fund the purchase of the replacement seat and the re-upholstery with the proceeds  8)

russ austin

R.Austin

CadatonicState

UPDATE:
I went ahead and contacted GM for the build sheet.  They emailed it over (quickly, I might add) and now the plot thickens:

The 63E1298xx shows up as a 63F1298xx on the build sheet!  If this were correct, it would be a series 62 convertible with an ebony exterior, red interior and black top.  There is an Eldorado farther down the list which is optioned identical to mine (save the interior color because I cannot prove/disprove its originality). 

I know the E in the vin numbers could easily be confused for an F, but I cleaned up both surfaces on the car and it is an E.  Even at that, my car is Frost Red everywhere: under the dash, inside the trunk and doors, around the convertible top well.

My only thought is that maybe somebody important got their Eldo order pushed up on the build sequence to the next available convertible and they swapped the VIN from F to E on the fly.  Thoughts?

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Impossible.

The broadcast number has the final say and if 1298xx is listed as an F (6267), it is a Series 62 convertible. Period.

Are you certain you got the last digit of the broadcast number correct? 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

russ austin

What does the body tag or cowl tag say for the body style?  The VIN is stamped on the engine also.
R.Austin

30326

#13
Nothing new about falsifying models. Every week there are 63/64 Series 62 Cadillacs posted as DeVille on Ebay. Sometimes even DeVilles posted as Eldorados (even though that is easy spotted on rear fenders on 1964). You might actually have a fraud case now. The car was the cheapest version Series 62 and sold as the most expensive model Eldorado. If you bought it via Ebay you might be entitled to a refund. An Eldorado is worth more than a Series 62. So you have clearly lost on this.

What does the VIN on your title say? Is it the same as on the frame or the engine (engines could be swapped out). Trace titles?

Suggest you become of member of CLC Chapter http://6364cadillac.ning.com/. You get plenty information there.

Ralph Messina CLC 4937

John,

Please post pic of the interior/dash.  Eldorados had wood inserts across the lower dash and doors. If it's missing there should be evidence of their removal on the dash if the car is an Eldorado. Second place to look is the inside  of the rear quarter panels accessible from the trunk. Eldorados did not have the single chrome spear down the middle of the body. If both quarters have evidence of closed chrome clip holes you likely have a modified Series 62. Absences of the clip holes is not conclusive proof that it's and Eldorado but it's unlikely that both rear quaters have been replaced. Lastly, remove the the door panels and look for the chrome clip holes in the outer door skin. If they are there, it's rather strong evidence that the car is a modified Series 62.

If the price you paid represents vehicle condition and not a premium for an Eldorado, don't be overly disappointed. Either model '63 convertible is a great car.

HTH,
1966 Fleetwood Brougham-with a new caretaker http://bit.ly/1GCn8I4
1966 Eldorado-with a new caretaker  http://bit.ly/1OrxLoY
2018 GMC Yukon

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#15
If the OP can affirm identical VIN stampings on the frame & engine block, and if that same number can be located on  the "Cars Built" sheet he has in his hands, he will have his answer of what the car was when it left the factory, its equipment, colors and trim.

A missing data plate is always cause for concern - with good reason.

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

CadatonicState

#16
Hi All,

Thank you all for the input.  I have been working with Jason over at the 63/64 chapter and have an active thread going there too.  I have attached some pictures of the car.  I’ve checked for the “harder to dupe” items and have found no spear trim mounting holes inside the trunk, doors or rear side window gear area.  The “easier to dupe” items check out (Eldorado horn, wreath horn center, wood grain interior).  Additionally, the car has the proper power vent windows, which I know was an option on the 62, though it was not equipped on the F model called out on the build sheet.  Not to mention, I’d imagine that would be a huge effort to integrate after the fact.  What really impresses me (for lack of a better adjective), is how there is absolutely no sign of a color other than 98 on this car.  Red up behind the instrument panel with no overspray, dusting inside the doors; just very convincing.  I bought the car very reasonably for a restoration project so I’m not going to crucify the seller.  In anyone’s defense, if the paper work shows an “E” code VIN, who would think to go to the lengths that I am to verify it? 

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#17
John... if you would be so good, could you please post the build sheet?

Second item I noticed is the color combination of black upper dash pad with lower panel in red (with red steering wheel). To my knowledge this had not been a standard color combination in a 1963 Eldorado which, if these items are original to the car, it would mean the car would have been a Special Order.

I am very interested to see whether the Eldorado you reported on the Cars Built sheet is also listed as being a Special Order - in which the interior code would have been entered as "00" or SO(XXXX) with XXXX being the body number.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute