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62 series 62 390 no spark

Started by P. Adams, January 28, 2017, 10:20:58 PM

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P. Adams

Hi.
I recently bought a 1962 series 62 that  I've been driving by for a year.  It has been sitting for around 13 years. Has 83k miles on it.
Still,  really good condition and complete. I pulled the plugs, put some Marvel oil in all the cylinders,  let it sit for a couple days,  then turned it around by hand. It's free and turns easily. Replaced points, condenser, plugs, wires, rotor,
Ignition coil,  and have a new fresh battery.
Engine turns over with key but,  no spark from coil wire when grounded to engine block while cranking.
Theres 12 volts on + side of coil,  12 on - side of coil,  12 at points with key in on,  points are gapped around .016,
Still no spark from coil wire or spark plug wires.
So,  seems like all places where there ought to be 12 volts, at least,  ( there s 6-7 on 2nd wire from +coil), there is 12 volts.  All the usual suspects have been changed and adjusted.  I'm stuck... Any ideas?
Paul

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

12v with the key on is good.... but what about while cranking?
Check your voltage while cranking to see what you get and/or just hot wire it and give it a try. I don't know about your year but in others there is a secondary circuit that delivers good solid 12 volts during the cranking process.

You need to post some pictures for us.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

Bobby B

Paul,
Hi. Test the coil first before you go any further. I assume you have a freshly charged battery? Disconnect the + and - wires off the coil and pull out your high tension wire. Get a multimeter and set it to the 200 ohms (or lowest) range. Go across the + and - terminals (primary side) of the coil and you should get between 1.5 and 1.7 ohms if it runs a ballast, "standard" or non-ballasted coils should read closer to 3 ohms. Now set your meter to the 20K range and go from your coil center recess (secondary side) to either the + or - terminal and you should get between 11k -14K on the meter. Coil voltage at your + side should always be between 6-9 Volts when running.  If you have a "Ballasted" system, you'll usually have a second wire on your coil + side coming off the starter solenoid. This provides a full 12V to the coil to provide a much hotter spark to help the engine start, and then when running you'll be at the normal 6-9 Volts at the coil. Many a coil have been burned out by running full voltage and/or the wrong coil for the system. The coil will eventually fail prematurely from heat, and you'll also shorten the life of your points. Just because you have a coil on there doesn't mean it's the correct one forty of ignition your system. Do your homework and keep us posted.
                                                    Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Steve Passmore

There's a fundamental thing to check here first Paul. You say you have the voltage at the points but do you actually have a spark at the points?   If you have 12 volts at the points but no spark when they open then the fault lies in that area.   When the points are closed and the ignition on open the points with a tiny screwdriver. It should ark across.
The reason I say this is because I am working on the second car in a month where I have fitted new points and I got no spark whatsoever.  Both had power to the points. Both these points were modern (I guess Chinese) replacements and both sets seemed to have some sort of invisible surface coating that would not pass voltage. In both cases I removed them, used a feeler gauge wrapped in a thinner coated rag and rubbed that between the two points. Both cars started right up!
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Dan LeBlanc

When the points were gapped, the block that rides on the cam was perfectly on the high part of the lobe, right?  Made the mistake of an "oh, close enough" once. When I gapped the block was almost, but not quite on the high part of the cam - just enough that the gap was too much not allowing them to close fully. Of course I had no spark until I adjusted them properly.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

76eldo

Also hook up a dwell meter and check the dwell while someone is cranking.
If you are getting a proper reading in the range that at least lets you know that the points are functioning.  Could also be the condensor or the rotor not making contact with the nub inside of the cap.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

bcroe

It is not unusual for points that haven't been used for many years, to
oxide enough the 12V can't get through.  Check that the voltage on
the points side of the coil terminals is at zero if the ign is turned on
with the points closed.  Of course it should read 12V if done when
the points are open.  Simple, check this first.  Bruce Roe

76eldo

Pass a little light sandpaper or emery cloth through the points to clean them up.  There is such a thing as a points file but not too many people have them.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

russ austin

Clean the points as described, and run a power wire straight from the battery to the coil. That bypass's the wiring to the starter and ignition switch.  If it starts, try starting without the bypass wire. If it doesn't start, you have problems in the starting system wiring/parts.
R.Austin

35-709

#9
If you are using this type of points and condenser (referred to by Steve Passmore), my first suspicion of the trouble would lie there.  Twice over the years I have had these be bad right out of the box and would now only use the older, separate points and condenser type.  Have not heard of Steve's method of wiping the points surfaces with thinner, but --- whatever works!   ;D   
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

J. Gomez

Paul,

In addition to other folks suggestions above;

Quote from: P. Adams on January 28, 2017, 10:20:58 PM
Theres 12 volts on + side of coil,  12 on - side of coil,  12 at points with key in on,  points are gapped around .016,
Still no spark from coil wire or spark plug wires.

I would assumed the +12V at the points is with them open, correct?

Quote from: P. Adams on January 28, 2017, 10:20:58 PM
So,  seems like all places where there ought to be 12 volts, at least,  ( there s 6-7 on 2nd wire from +coil), there is 12 volts.  All the usual suspects have been changed and adjusted.  I'm stuck... Any ideas?

The “+” side of the coil should have a “yellow” wire which should be coming from the starter solenoid, it provides a direct “+12V” to the coil while cranking bypassing the resistance wire from the ignition switch.

If you do not have a solid “+12V” on this wire from the solenoid you will not get a spark since the ignition switch is open while cranking.

Once the engine starts and the key is release the resistance wire would drop the voltage down to +7-+9V to the “+” side of the coil with engine running.

HTH

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Glen

Don’t forget the condenser, if that is bad you won’t get a spark.  If the points have 12 volts when open, and zero when closed then swap out the condenser. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

fishnjim

If all else fails, check your engine ground straps also.   They can corrode/sheet metal rusts under screw while sitting.   It won't spark if there's no path to ground.   (But I don't think that's your problem.  If it's not the coil, sounds like you left the rotor is out.)

I'd go through and put all new electrical/ignition parts on it; cap, rotor, wires, coil, battery cables, plugs, etc..   Eliminates a lot of time fault searching.   Just part of owning a points era car.       
Sitting 13 years, you definitely need to flush the fuel system, so you don't just cause another problem once ignition is up.

cadman56

Don't laugh but I once did everything you could think of as shown abouve.  Distributor shaft was frozen and broke the distributor and camshaft gears.  Is the rotor turning when cranking the engine?  Good luck, Larry
1956 Cadillac Coupe deVille (sold)
1956 Cadillac Convertible (sold)
1956 Cadillac Eldorado Seville (sold)
1967 Cadillac Eldorado (sold)
1968 Cadillac Convertible (Sold)
1991 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham dElegance
Larry Blanchard CLC #5820