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Question for those with convertible tops - pads are disintegrating

Started by chrisntam, February 12, 2017, 09:16:50 AM

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chrisntam

On my '70, the top (I "think" it's original) is in (what I think) great shape, but the pads (foam) are disintegrating.  If I keep using it as it is, the top will eventually fail.

How does one tell if the top is original?  On the inside, there is what I call a headliner from the front bow to the 2nd bow and maybe something similar in the back.

I talked to a local reputable top guy on the phone, he says that in order to replace the pads, the top has to come off and if the top is off, you might as well replace that.  I plan on taking it by for him to look at in a week or two.

Anyone had this issue?  What did you do?  Don't really want to replace the top, but for maybe another $500, I can have both new pads and a new top, but I only really need the new pads.  Rough cost is around $2000 give or take $500.
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Steve Passmore

Very hard to replace a top that's been removed. I have been asked to do it many times but now refuse. Reasons are that when fixed first time all excess material is trimmed off and when replacing it one has little material to work with. The material can also be a  little brittle and can easily be damaged removing and replacing.  Could be done but it's much more time consuming trying to remove it without damage.  Labour costs the same so cheaper just to have a new one for the small extra $.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Ralph Messina CLC 4937

The original '70 white top had a black inside liner like the recent replacements, so that's no help. I had a '66 with the original 30 year old top and the area of greatest wear was along the edge seams above the windows where the roof folds. The vinyl surface was cracked and the interior layers were beginning to fray.
Judging by local prices (NJ), I'd say  $2000  is reasonable. It would be a shop that does excellent work and would cover labor and all material including the top with glass rear window, side pads, "headliners" and side tension wires. It should also cover minor frame adjustments if necessary.  I chose a removable rear glass window that zips down and lowers into the well even though it's not original. It's an older feature but makes top up cruising very pleasant..........BTW, NEVER lower the top with the window unzipped and laying in the well as it will definitely break.
1966 Fleetwood Brougham-with a new caretaker http://bit.ly/1GCn8I4
1966 Eldorado-with a new caretaker  http://bit.ly/1OrxLoY
2018 GMC Yukon

Scot Minesinger

If it is above 55'F and not raining, my top goes down, even if it is 100'F.  Otherwise, might as well just own closed Cadillacs.

Some value an original top to keep the car all original, including paint, engine, interior and etc.  Since the engine has been out of the car, any value in retaining the original top is probably gone.  If the top due to age (not adjustment or replacing of rubbers), leaks then it should be replaced without exception.  A leaking top will cause damage to the car if ever caught in the rain repeatedly.  If the top has some wear showing, but it remains weather tight then it is a matter of choice.  It is not unusual in Washington, DC area and others to see original tops on 1970 DeVille Convertibles.  The top I buy looks completely original, white with black inside.  Never lost points even at GN for top.  It may be impossible to tell if it is an original top for sure, because it could have been replaced in 1975 or so - you never know. 

Some people bought the convertible for the roof line (remember the story of the GM executive's wife who never put top down).  This is one of the few convertibles (most Cadillacs look good with top up,  but not all other makes) that looks great with top up.  Use of the top wears it out, more so than age it seems.  Good storage and not using top keeps it nice for a long time.

The cost to replace my top from a very high quality vendor is about $1,200.  The 71-76 Eldorado are way more, like 2k. 

I have driven my Cadillac 40k miles in 11 years and when I bought it had a new top.  Since almost every drive is top down and the top is always up when not driving it in garage to keep it stretched and interior clean, they last about 5 or 6 summers for me.  I have replaced my white top twice since 2005, mainly due to looking old (white is hard to keep clean), not due to leaks.  Probably should replace it this spring, but may not - not sure. 

Also my Hydro-electric switch (dash mtd) for lowering convertible top, lasts about two seasons. 

Cost of owning my convertible over a closed car is ($1,200 top every six years+ 3 switches @ $150 ea.)/6 years = $275 per year - no problem.

Enjoy your Cadillac!
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

76eldo

The material you are referring to between the header and second bow is called the silencer.
It's found on original tops and high quality replacements.

If your too is folded halfway back it may be possible to do something with the pads but I agree that removing and replacing the original top is not possible.
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

76eldo

Hydro Electric in Florida makes an exact repro top switch.  We can probably solve the switch problem by incorporating a relay into the circuit.  I think that the switches fail because of the high current draw and they probably arc repeatedly and burn out the contacts.  Using a relay would take the strain off of the switch because it would only need to have enough current going through it to activate the relay, not power the motor.

Bruce Roe can probably whip up a circuit in like two minutes.  A double pole double throw relay (or two relays) would be needed.

There is a control board that I use in installing access control systems.  The mother board is expensive and if you use the terminals on the board to throw current to an electric door release you are using the contacts in the on-board relay to control the high current to the door strike so we use a small secondary or isolation relay and switch the door current through the $10.00 relay instead of the $500.00 control board.  Then the control board only send a very small amount of current to operate the relay which in turn powers the door strike.

We can apply the same principal to the convertible top switch and instead of replacing a $150.00 top switch we can probably avoid failure all together.

I will have to work on this unless Bruce wants to come up with a circuit.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

chrisntam

Quote from: 76eldo on February 12, 2017, 06:59:10 PM
The material you are referring to between the header and second bow is called the silencer.
It's found on original tops and high quality replacements.

If your top is folded halfway back it may be possible to do something with the pads but I agree that removing and replacing the original top is not possible.

I assume you mean removing the original top and re-installing the original top is not possible.  Thanks for the info on the silencer.  My '75 olds 88 vert didn't have one.  I think I'll have him do what he can to "patch it, if that's possible.

Scot - haven't driven it in the rain, have no idea if the top leaks.

And since that thread about 1.5 years ago, I haven't washed the car either. 

And, if anyone is wondering, I have my tin foil hat on too.

;)
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

76eldo

Not that it's not possible just not practical.  The labor cost on this would be as much as putting on a new top.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado