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Author Topic: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac  (Read 1261 times)

Offline Dan LeBlanc

  • Posts: 4813
  • Name: Dan LeBlanc
An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« on: April 09, 2017, 07:52:41 AM »
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Offline Scot Minesinger

  • Posts: 6004
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2017, 10:13:04 AM »
The article never really definitively identified the root cause, but it is likely that BMW has cooler reputation, more models and more fun cars.

These number of models seems not really true.  I guess if the manufacturer calls a black ATS or 3 series one model and when red another then OK, it is their choice.  Models generally should reflect a significant chassis change to me.  To me Cadillac has about 12 models (in 1970 they had 11 - think 75 series, B pillar or not, Calais and etc.):

4:  ATS coupe and Sedan, V or not
2:  CTS, V or not
1:  CT6
2:  XTS, V or not
1:  XT5
2:  Escalade short or long
____
12

BMW same, way less than 91. 

Adding an engine upgrade or a trim (Platinum) changes the model?  Maybe I should write that Cadillac has 12 Chassis types (giving the V version a different chassis due to suspension, rigidity and etc.).

A flagship Cadillac exciting car may help with the coolness factor, which I think is the main reason.  Most people are more impressed to learn you drive a BMW than a Cadillac and that needs to change.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Offline Big Apple Caddy

  • Posts: 1332
  • Name: R. Langley
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2017, 10:19:15 AM »
Cadillac is looking to improve its position in the popular crossover/SUV market by offering at least two new crossovers over the next few years, which will help sales.  Unfortunately, the types of cars that once dominated their sales (large sedans) just aren't selling like they used to.  Cadillac is actually still a big player in the large sedan market but the problem is that market has shrunken quite a bit.

Despite record breaking sales for BMW in the U.S. in 2015, their passenger car sales actually saw a decline that year.  Like the rest of the market, their real growth lately has been in "light trucks" (crossovers/SUVs).

Offline Rich S

  • Posts: 601
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2017, 11:59:43 AM »
Interesting reading. It seems to me Cadillac tries too hard to be exactly like the German brands. I grew up in the seventies, and many of my family's friends owned the German cars, but also kept a Cadillac in their garages as the "family car." They bought the full-sized Cadillac models in the early seventies, and embraced the '75-'79 Sevilles, and even early eighties Sevilles, along with their German sports coupes. They did not buy the Caddies because they were identical to the German metal--each car occupied its own niche. Perhaps the sedans Cadillac currently offers should be pared back (since each model designation is quite similar in size or overlaps another) and the money saved could enable development of more variants of the models offered (i.e. Convertibles, Coupes, hatchbacks or Wagons, etc.) but with fewer models in the range. What Cadillac is doing is surely not working. One of the comments to the article feels Cadillac should be undercutting the price of the imports, and maybe that is needed to get consumers to try a modern Cadillac product.
Rich Sullivan CLC #11473

1971 Eldo Conv., 2013 CTS Cpe

Offline dochawk

  • Posts: 627
  • Name: Richard Hawkins
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2017, 12:04:39 AM »
Not offering a large V8 sea or coupe certainly seems to be a factor.

Or, any v8 outside of a high-performance submodel . . .

My response to suddenly owning any current model of Cadillac car would be to sell it for older Cadillacs . .

hawk
1972 Eldorado convertible,  1997 Eldorado ETC (now awaiting parts swap from '95 donor), 1993 Fleetwood but no 1926 (yet)

Offline Big Apple Caddy

  • Posts: 1332
  • Name: R. Langley
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2017, 08:21:25 AM »
One of the comments to the article feels Cadillac should be undercutting the price of the imports, and maybe that is needed to get consumers to try a modern Cadillac product.

But Cadillac DOES undercut the price of various imports.  For example, the CT6 is similar in size to the BMW 7-Series and MB S-Class yet starts around $27,000 (7) to $42,000 (S) less; the CTS is similar in size to the BMW 5-Series and MB E-Class yet starts around $5,000 (5) to $6,000 (E) less; etc.

Offline Big Apple Caddy

  • Posts: 1332
  • Name: R. Langley
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2017, 08:22:51 AM »
Or, any v8 outside of a high-performance submodel . . .

Escalade and Escalade ESV.

Offline Scot Minesinger

  • Posts: 6004
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2017, 12:23:35 PM »
Big Apple,

We mean V-8 in a car.  The more cylinders the smoother and more enjoyable the driving experience.  MB, BMW, and most others offer a V-8 in their sedans and coupes that is not a race car.  The CTS-V is the only V-8 powered Cadillac car.  Just looking for a 5 seat (full size adults comfortably - the CTS is out) Cadillac RWD V-8 that is not designed around a racing track theme.  Frankly, the CTS looks better than the CTS-V to me. 

The CT6 seems more like a BMW 5 series or MB E series car, not quite S class or 7 series size.

There was a road test of the MB S550 and CT6 on U-tube, and the author commented about their inequality, but certainly mentioned the savings - as usual no conclusion.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Offline Big Apple Caddy

  • Posts: 1332
  • Name: R. Langley
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2017, 01:00:22 PM »
We mean V-8 in a car.  The more cylinders the smoother and more enjoyable the driving experience.  MB, BMW, and most others offer a V-8 in their sedans and coupes that is not a race car.  The CTS-V is the only V-8 powered Cadillac car.  Just looking for a 5 seat (full size adults comfortably - the CTS is out) Cadillac RWD V-8 that is not designed around a racing track theme.  Frankly, the CTS looks better than the CTS-V to me. 
I understand "hawk" was referring to sedans and coupes in his first sentence but I was responding to the "OR" statement.  Cadillac does offer V8s outside of high-performance submodels.

Cadillac has been rumored to be looking to offer a V8 in the CT6 but nothing has been confirmed yet.  Even if they do, it's going to be the additional crossovers joining the lineup that will help sales far more.  The level of demand for large sedans (and coupes) just isn't what it used to be, V8 or not.


The CT6 seems more like a BMW 5 series or MB E series car, not quite S class or 7 series size.
Seems???  The reality is that it is far closer to S-Class and 7-Series size e.g., the CT6 had more interior passenger/cargo volume than an MB S550 sedan and is within 2.5 inches of the S550 sedan's length.   The CT6's much cheaper price is what really makes them less comparable but that's been the case between S-Class and the even larger Cadillac sedans in the past.

Offline cadillacmike68

  • Posts: 3438
  • Still crusin'
  • CLC Number: 15823
  • Name: M Santos
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2017, 09:13:08 PM »
Let's see:

No Cadillac convertibles.....

And no V8s in the cars.

Some of us don't do trucks or suburban uhttack vehicles.  ::)
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Offline Dan LeBlanc

  • Posts: 4813
  • Name: Dan LeBlanc
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2017, 09:47:10 PM »
I did the SUV thing for a bit in the form of a Lincoln Navigator. Why?  Towing capacity beat the comparable Escalades and I preferred the Navigator styling. Then I got it home and towed with it once. Performed beautifully. Then I got to thinking it's really too nice of a vehicle to abuse like that. So, I got a V10 F350.

After four years of owning it, it gave excellent service needing only normal maintenance over the course of the 50000mi we put on it. My wife was the primary driver and she wanted a small crossover. She didn't like the Cadillac crossover, so we made a deal on a Tiguan. Fun little crossover to drive with the 2.0TSI.

Got a glimpse of the new Navigator unveiled online today. I think Lincoln has finally one upped the Escalade. I'll wait a few years for a used one but man, I want one. I'd also take the new Continental over the CT6
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

  • Posts: 7039
  • Name: Eric DeVirgilis
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2017, 11:08:04 AM »
All I know is that when they start calling things the "BMW" of dishwashing machines, health care plans etc., then I'll start worrying.  :o
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline Scot Minesinger

  • Posts: 6004
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2017, 08:43:11 PM »
Eric,

Nice!, but back hundreds of years ago, there was a fear of burring dead people alive so the grave diggers ran a string up from the coffin to a bell by the head stone.  If the person awoke in the coffin they could ring the bell by pulling on the string, leaving no doubt that the coffin should be dug up.  Hence the expression "dead ringer".  "Threshold" is the board at the doorway that keeps the straw floor material on dirt floor from leaving the house due to foot traffic.   Many expressions remain that have long surpassed the origin.  The "Cadillac" of whatever expression meant to describe a premium product probably will remain for a while no matter the fate of the brand.  Let us hope the brand outlives the expression.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Offline dochawk

  • Posts: 627
  • Name: Richard Hawkins
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2017, 11:06:09 PM »
  The "Cadillac" of whatever expression meant to describe a premium product probably will remain for a while no matter the fate of the brand.

I time, Cadillac may become the Cadillac of automobiles again . . .

:)

but it's not going to happen without a V8 convertible)
1972 Eldorado convertible,  1997 Eldorado ETC (now awaiting parts swap from '95 donor), 1993 Fleetwood but no 1926 (yet)

Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

  • Posts: 7039
  • Name: Eric DeVirgilis
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2017, 01:41:13 PM »
When thinking of Cadillac and you think of this...



or this...



or this...




...the metaphor of Cadillac as the BEST still holds true today!  8)

There is only one Cadillac. 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 01:44:10 PM by Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 »
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline Scot Minesinger

  • Posts: 6004
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2017, 07:15:51 PM »
Wow Eric!, you certainly demonstrated why Cadillac earned this proverb.  Not sure any car manufacturer ever in the future will surpass that level of superiority over their competition.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

  • Posts: 7039
  • Name: Eric DeVirgilis
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2017, 12:08:19 PM »
Wow Eric!, you certainly demonstrated why Cadillac earned this proverb.  Not sure any car manufacturer ever in the future will surpass that level of superiority over their competition.

Amen.  8)
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline Dan LeBlanc

  • Posts: 4813
  • Name: Dan LeBlanc
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2017, 03:15:45 PM »
Even in this Motorweek review of the 1984 Eldorado touring coupe, they were referring to Cadillac's shifting demographic, and how they needed to try to offer a European feeling car.

They did make some comments I had never heard about a 4100 equipped car though. Quick?? Powerful???  Confident????

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf0o-Rj0wmQ&feature=share
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Bill Young

  • Guest
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2017, 07:15:10 PM »
Your-a-peon cars are small and boring to me. So are the current Cadillac's in my opinion. Dodge has built the Charger 4 door and Challenger 2 door in a retro style and offer colors both inside and out and they sell like hot cakes. We own a 2016 Dodge Hemi Challenger Shaker model. I did not work 45 years to retire and drive a small 4 door sedan car with no chrome and looks like a foreign car called Cadillac in white or black or silver or gray with a black or gray interior. That's why I drive a 1972 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible. My Wife owns the Challenger. If Cadillac wants my business they will build a retro car , period. I don't like foreign cars , I have never liked foreign cars and Luxury to me does not consist of a 4 door sedan with bucket seats and a short wheelbase with no choices. Now GM did you get that ?  One Mans Opinion

Offline Scot Minesinger

  • Posts: 6004
Re: An article on why BMW outsells Cadillac
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2017, 07:35:11 PM »
Dan,

When you wrote the post I was going to comment in response to "quick or powerful" being spoken that drunken driving laws were not enforce much in the USA at that time, that was the year after college and I can sure vouch for the lack of enforcement.  Anyway I watched it they did say "0-60mph in 13.1 seconds" and I never heard the words "quick" or "powerful" referring to the engine or acceleration, maybe heard the word "quick" on handling.  In 1984 how would you like to have just paid 25k for your new Eldorado, be at the stop light and have a 1964 Cadillac blow you in the weeds when the light turns green.  Your 1970 Cadillac would easily shame this car on the road today or in 1984.  A 1979 Cadillac Eldorado (same body style) was quick, then came the 1980's-urgh!

Bill Young is right.  I have a 2006 Dodge with Hemi bought new and still own today, and it has been trouble free.  No 1986 Dodge is going to shame me at the stop light.  At the time I bought it, wanted to buy a new Cadillac to replace the 1995 Fleetwood RWD, but nothing appealed to me.  All I was looking for was a larger American RWD V-8 car.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

 

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