New 1976 Eldorado Convertible Owner Experience/ Intro

[toukow]

Hello, I’m a relatively new to the fold, but have been lurking for months.  Saw the ‘My 76 Eldorado Convertible Experience’ by joeinbcs, so thought I’d chime in. I have zero previous experience with the Cadillac brand.

When I was researching Cadillacs, the forum was noted elsewhere as a great resource of information, and that has definitely been my experience. BTW, this forum has a great ‘tone’ compared to most, without the normal harsh comments in general, or I’ve missed such posts.

I’ve always wanted a Cadillac of such size that it would cause sphincter tightening when thinking about parallel parking in downtown Seattle, and this appeared to fit the bill. Was looking for a 60’s DeVille, but foolishly went to just look at this 1976 Eldorado with fuel injection and 75k miles attached, and ended up buying it. Perhaps more for the ‘perceived’ condition than true passion, but that seems to be growing too as I work on the car. It had no rust, the interior was in very good shape with zero cracking, so decided to give it a go. 

It had a leaky rear caliper, so I just finished replacing all the calipers, rear rotors, front brake hoses, master cylinder, and installed some higher performance pads. Changed all fluids, of course. Have to say I really appreciate the reasonable cost of parts for this car so far, as compared to Japanese/European, but know there are exceptions to this as well.

Lessons learned, excluding initial inspection, where I feel we fell down a bit:

1.   At the top of the list is that I should have spent a lot more time on the forum before buying this particular model of car. I would have learned the easy (easier) vs. hard way. TJ Hopland’s and others posts on this vehicle would have opened my eyes to many of the issues I’ve encountered. Oh, well, ‘live and learn’, if you’re lucky.

2.   I’m still unclear as to how to value these cars, so not sure how I did price-wise. As noted by joeinbc’s post, the numbers seem high in the available references compared to asking prices. I split the cost with a friend who has no parking space, so that eased the costs significantly.

3.   Learned the details of the rear brake caliper which are quite different with the E-brake piston. The video linked on this site by Benny Kimchi was great in helping me understand the internals, and made me glad I just bought remanufactured units and skipped the rebuild attempt. By the way- I bought rear calipers from two different O’reilly’s that had to be returned. The casting was incorrect on both, such that the spring return stop for the E-brake lever was removed and the lever would not make contact at the proper location.  Also, just returned a caliper for my Tundra to them as well, so not sure what’s going on there.

4.   Read about the issues of injector seals on the forum, so replaced those and the fuel filter.

5.   Have been working at deciphering the ‘Body by Fisher’ plate, but guess I’ll have to get Mr. Hall’s book to fully understand the coding. It is quite confusing to me, and from the many postings on the same subject I see that I’m not alone. It was suggested to look under the backseat to find the build slip, which indeed was there to add to my documentation.

6.   Was surprised to learn how little instrumentation is stock on these cars, instead relying on idiot lights. I can see why some people choose to add auxiliary instrumentation. 

7.   I find the complexity of the electronic trunk latch perplexing. It reminds me of the episode of ‘Top Gear’ where Clarkson and May were comparing an old Rolls to an old Mercedes, and Clarkson shows May that the Mercedes  has a hydraulic system to close the trunk by the touch of a button. May just smirks and says- ‘Yeah, because (reaching up and closing the trunk) this is so difficult’. So now I have to worry about 99.9% of the world wanting to slam the trunk in the usual fashion. 

8.   Learned about the funky plastic bumper/head light/tail light trim and the apparent PITA to replace per the forum. I really wish I had understood this beforehand, though not sure it would have stopped the deal, but better ‘eyes open’ for a refreshing change.

9.   One expensive aftermath of the brake job is that I broke down and saw cut the floor and installed a lift; should have done it many years ago. It was a lot of work, but I think worth it. I was quite shocked at how cheap lifts have become in general with Chinese steel, and I’m getting too old for the 50 times up and down. I won’t be able to get full elevation with it due to ceiling height restriction, but anything beats laying on the ground in my book. At least I can sit in an office chair while working under her. Guess it was one of my ‘bucket list’ items to a degree, so what the heck.

So, next on the list is to:
•   Troubleshoot AC
•   Troubleshoot cruise control-vacuum hoses ( I hope)
•   Figure out stereo upgrade without damaging the car. 
•   Pull the distributor and determine the condition of the plastic-coated timing gears

Anyway, just wanted to introduce myself and say thanks for all of the information available on the forum.  D. Harrison (toukow)

[TJ Hopland]

There are options for stereo upgrades.   Things to watch out for when it comes to the speakers is the depth.   Many more modernish speakers are much deeper than the originals so there can be clearance issues.    I have installed a few Retrosound units and so far they are my favorite for a retro radio.   They have a reasonably priced basic unit and you can also go all out and get a fancy satellite bluetooth if you want.   A really interesting option for an Eldo (because of the flat floor) would be to build a center console.   This console could house any sort of radio and speakers that you want plus things like cup holders.  It can also easily be removed for extra space or shows.  I have thought about building one for my 73.   I am currently running stuff I bought shorty after I bought the car back in the early 90's when you could still buy a 'shaft' radio at typical stores. 

Heat and AC basically has 2 sections,  the controls and the mechanical.   The controls may seem like they are working but once you get the mechanical AC bits working you often find that the control system isn't quite right and also needs work so be ready to put some time and money into that if you want it working correctly.   Cadillac Tim's books on the control system are well written based on more recent repair experience and using more typical tools.   The only really somewhat odd thing about the mechanical side of the AC is the VIR.  Luckily the VIR was not a Cadillac exclusive thing,  other GM's did it in the same era which was 73-76 so there is some support for them if you want to keep things original.   Under the hood mine is now all modern aftermarket stuff mostly from either Old Air or Vintage Air using a Sanden compressor mounted with a bracket from MTS.

On the cruise making sure the vacuum lines are all in good shape is a good place to start.   A hand vacuum pump/gauge is a great tool for doing basic tests.   Test the servo motor to make sure it can actually pull the throttle and hold vacuum.   Test the hose that disappears into the firewall, this is the 'emergency' release to the brake pedal.  There is basically a plug on the pedal so when the pedal is at rest it seals the hose which will then allow the system to build vacuum and do its thing.  If you press the pedal it opens which will bleed off the vacuum so no matter what the system is doing electrically it will release the throttle.   Generally that part of the system is pretty reliable but its worth checking because a leak there will keep it from working at all. 

One area I have seen cruise not work is if the gearbox unit isn't grounded.   It grounds through the mount so corrosion between the bracket and firewall could keep it from working.   Many of the mounts have a rubber shock mount in them which is supposed to have a metal strap on one of the mounts to connect the ground.  I have seen them where that ground strap was damaged from being too tight. 

The little gearbox unit is overall pretty reliable but wasn't built for a zillion miles.   It wears if you use the cruise or not and they didn't really have bearings in them so some of the moving parts wear and start rubbing where they shouldn't and there really isn't individual parts available for them or a practical way to repair the bearing areas.   I tried some 'rebuilt' units and didn't have good luck with them so have gone to aftermarket systems in some cases.   Maybe getting one from a vintage specialist would be fine but 'regular' parts stores seem to be junk.   I have pictures of one taken apart if you want to see what is in there.  If it works now it may be worth taking it apart for some cleaning and lubrication.       

[kkkaiser]

I would throw I'm my 2 cents.   own a 73 eldorado convertible

I have never owned a classic car,, in my adult life over 40,, its been diesel pickups etc for work related life.  now, in late 50s,,i had been watching the car shows on tv,, and took a passing interest in cars..not to be a car restorer or anything like that, but i showed old cars that I had forgotten about.  I have NO electrical experience, NO mechanic experience so my foray into this has been an eye opener,,,

I would have to agree with point one above,,,, wish i had found this site before I made the purchase. may not have stopped me from buying, but made me more informed..

i paid about 6 for mine,,,it had a two year old re man engine.  Top,, it kinda worked,, door hung a little,,few hail dents,, not many,, some cosmetic things inside.... i thought,, heck,, nothing maybe 2k cant fix up,   

Well,, lets see,

right out of the block,

cv joint, replaced,,,  350
alternator  replaced.     650
had to have door rehung,, (pins were worn)   200
had to do some bumper re aligning, it was just a bit off.   500
i replaced all the belt line window trims, some weather stripping.  250
then, rear windows quit,, i figured out had to get new brackets as the rollers had damaged,, 600
then, the motors and the switches on the doors that controlled them were burning out. 
replace the transmission pan gasket,
let see,, AC heater items, which i have resolved through the efforts of this forum to help me.   not a lot of money, just a lot of time,, but did have to replace the controller, the programmer,  the thermal switch,,in car sensor were  about the only other parts i needed. but it was time consuming      750

The convertible top,, well,, i initially needed both the cables to run the motor drive to the gears.  80$,, got some feeling of how it works,,while feeling the afterglow of success on getting it running, this weekend, while it was going up, a bushing in the side rail got stripped out.. so, long story short, apparently, the side rail has some minor bend in it, stressing that joint,, and the brass bushing sheered off.    have to replace side rail and weatherstripping   800.00

quarter panel eldorado script on each side   120.00
books, manuals 125.00
other trims, i.e., wind lace, little of this, little of that,, from vintage part people,,,500.00

sure i have missed some stuff,,, so i up around an additional 5k,,, and i have done a lot myself, just by trial and error and reading,, and help from this forum.  so,,,,

this is all on top of what the prior owner had done, in the last two year,s
reman engine,  and re wire,  lots of stuff, three page invoice   14,000
shocks, carb, etc..


after i purchased the car, i thought i could use it for an open top tour car in Yellowstone, as i live on the north entrance,, but as i got going, i thought, well, i dont want a rattle bucket, and i want the basics to work,,,so it has lead me to these repairs...I hope the concept goes over!!!!

i have taken the care on three and four hour rides with no problem,,, 13 mpg w no air on.. so,,it seems to be running good

so,, would i do it again??

I wish i had known more,,,i really do like driving it.. especially since i got the top working, because now i can drive,,put up the top, and walk away, no worry,, and,, i may have looked for a more complete car, obviously for more money, but then, i wouldnt have gained some working knowledge of the auto mobile, 

its been a journey,,,for sure,, it has a few squeaks and things i am trying to find,, i hate squeaks and rattles,  on anything, but some of these are hard to find..

i would love to have it repainted and new interior, but they are ok, so will have to wait, 

Yeah,, i would do again, but have a different plan going in,  its been fun to drive, and my schnauzer loves to look out he back of the car at people in convertible mode.

[dochawk]

I wish i had known more,,,i really do like driving it.. especially since i got the top working, because now i can drive,,put up the top, and walk away, no worry,, and,, i may have looked for a more complete car, obviously for more money, but then, i wouldnt have gained some working knowledge of the auto mobile, 

I recall the first (and only, I think) thing my father ever taught me about convertibles.

Never, ever, lock them.

Unlocked, they steal whatever is inside (so don't leave anything inside).

Locked, they slash the roof to get in . . .

One day at the office on Saturday, three of us drove convertibles.

The other two were slashed, while I'd left my top  down and was fine . . .

[76eldo]

Welcome to the insanity.

A pinball dealer told me that by definition collectors of old stuff are insane.  He said "They want old stuff to look like new, work like new, and never break, even though they always broke when new". So there's that take.

The 76 Eldo convertible is one of my favorite cars of all time.  It's a huge car with a small trunk.  It's a car with with a 500 cubic inch engine that isn't fast.  I doesn't make much sense other than it's a great looking convertible that seats 5 or 6 and floats like a cloud.  I love mine.

The best recommendation on these cars is to buy the cleanest lowest mileage one you can find.  You will still need to replace speakers, replace bumper fillers, keep the AC and cruise working but the ones that are cheap will need much more attention and actually cost more in the end.

Good luck with yours.  In addition to this forum which is excellent, there is a Yahoo Group called Big Eldorados as well as a Facebook page called Big Eldorados.

Brian

[7gen]

I am in the same boat. I bought a 76 Eldorado convertible last year. The body was great and mostly original (the top had been replaced but that was all) but mechanically, many shortcuts had been taken over the years, things you don't find on an inspection before purchase. No matter. It is in great shape now and I'm glad to put such a beautiful car back into the shape she deserves.

Part of the issue with these cars is the level you want to restore it to. If you want an ice cream car (for cruising to the ice cream shop a few times a year), you can get away with a LOT of deferred maintenance. If you want a safe, reliable car that functions and drives as a Cadillac should and did back in the day, it is going to take a lot more money.

Also, a distinction between fixing and maintenance should be made. I fixed many things but now I'm doing things I consider maintenance - the timing set, getting the top to stack properly below the belt line, putting in better sound, adjusting the windows, tracking down squeaks. This different from getting things fixed that were nonoperational (AC, broken bow on top, etc.). Maintenance comes with any car and with cars this old, it is sometimes expensive. Part of the hobby. Some things I probably won't fix, such as the automatic level control. Just not worth it to me.

[LenInLA]

I just paid $700 to redo the front seat and replace the pads in the other seats. Which brings the total I've spent on my 1976 Eldorado convertible within the last 15 months to around $12,500. I paid around $7K for the car.

The car is now in very good shape. Far from perfect. The AC needs to be fixed ($1K); the lower driver side door panel is in very poor condition; haven't been able to find a replacement yet. The rubber seals are probably original. Not a big problem in California. But realistically I could easily spend another $5K to get to a level 3 car.

If I had to do it all over again, I would've listened more carefully to Brian and paid $20K for a car in great condition to start with.

Leonard Grayver

[cadillacmike68]

I would throw I'm my 2 cents.   own a 73 eldorado convertible

I have never owned a classic car,, in my adult life over 40,, its been diesel pickups etc for work related life.  now, in late 50s,,i had been watching the car shows on tv,, and took a passing interest in cars..not to be a car restorer or anything like that, but i showed old cars that I had forgotten about.  I have NO electrical experience, NO mechanic experience so my foray into this has been an eye opener,,,

I would have to agree with point one above,,,, wish i had found this site before I made the purchase. may not have stopped me from buying, but made me more informed..

i paid about 6 for mine,,,it had a two year old re man engine.  Top,, it kinda worked,, door hung a little,,few hail dents,, not many,, some cosmetic things inside.... i thought,, heck,, nothing maybe 2k cant fix up,   

Well,, lets see,

right out of the block,

cv joint, replaced,,,  350
alternator  replaced.     650
had to have door rehung,, (pins were worn)   200
had to do some bumper re aligning, it was just a bit off.   500
i replaced all the belt line window trims, some weather stripping.  250
then, rear windows quit,, i figured out had to get new brackets as the rollers had damaged,, 600
then, the motors and the switches on the doors that controlled them were burning out. 
replace the transmission pan gasket,
let see,, AC heater items, which i have resolved through the efforts of this forum to help me.   not a lot of money, just a lot of time,, but did have to replace the controller, the programmer,  the thermal switch,,in car sensor were  about the only other parts i needed. but it was time consuming      750

The convertible top,, well,, i initially needed both the cables to run the motor drive to the gears.  80$,, got some feeling of how it works,,while feeling the afterglow of success on getting it running, this weekend, while it was going up, a bushing in the side rail got stripped out.. so, long story short, apparently, the side rail has some minor bend in it, stressing that joint,, and the brass bushing sheered off.    have to replace side rail and weatherstripping   800.00

quarter panel eldorado script on each side   120.00
books, manuals 125.00
other trims, i.e., wind lace, little of this, little of that,, from vintage part people,,,500.00

sure i have missed some stuff,,, so i up around an additional 5k,,, and i have done a lot myself, just by trial and error and reading,, and help from this forum.  so,,,,

this is all on top of what the prior owner had done, in the last two year,s
reman engine,  and re wire,  lots of stuff, three page invoice   14,000
shocks, carb, etc..


after i purchased the car, i thought i could use it for an open top tour car in Yellowstone, as i live on the north entrance,, but as i got going, i thought, well, i dont want a rattle bucket, and i want the basics to work,,,so it has lead me to these repairs...I hope the concept goes over!!!!

i have taken the care on three and four hour rides with no problem,,, 13 mpg w no air on.. so,,it seems to be running good

so,, would i do it again??

I wish i had known more,,,i really do like driving it.. especially since i got the top working, because now i can drive,,put up the top, and walk away, no worry,, and,, i may have looked for a more complete car, obviously for more money, but then, i wouldnt have gained some working knowledge of the auto mobile, 

its been a journey,,,for sure,, it has a few squeaks and things i am trying to find,, i hate squeaks and rattles,  on anything, but some of these are hard to find..

i would love to have it repainted and new interior, but they are ok, so will have to wait, 

Yeah,, i would do again, but have a different plan going in,  its been fun to drive, and my schnauzer loves to look out he back of the car at people in convertible mode.

650 for an alternator? 

They are about $100 and take maybe an hour to install.

[kkkaiser]

Im still learning this stuff,,,,!   getting there slowly,,  if it had happened today, yes, i would have changed it myself... but my skill level and understanding was not there at the time..