Author Topic: 1970 Eldorado  (Read 1174 times)

Offline wrench

  • Posts: 1000
  • CLC Number: 27930
  • Name: Jim Cullen
1970 Eldorado
« on: April 17, 2017, 05:49:49 PM »
Well, I went and got another Cadillac. Number 2 for me. It is a 1970 Eldorado triple black with power roof. It is a driver, remarkably original. Almost everything works. It appears to have had one patch and paint. It needs another. There is some rust under the vinyl top, with some rot. The price was right enough to fix all of that. I will probably fix the roof next winter and prep it for paint winter of 2018/19. If I am really gung ho, maybe fix roof/ paint next winter!

It needs cosmetics and, of course, mechanicals. I can drive it and fix it as I go. I have ordered the service manual, wiring and vacuum manual pages out of a Motor's manual, a colored laminated wiring diagram, a 1970 Sun Roof manual, Fisher body manual.

I plan to start with a geared starter and pertronix conversion. ( I can handle points, but choose not to deal with them any more)

I got into the passing gear to put it through its paces which seemed to work well, the motor runs strong, But i did have a problem with GEN light coming on and the gas gauge died. I researched the internet and found a topic about the Gauge/Trans fuse blowing. I checked the fuse and it was blown, hard short. Which was good because I can find and fix a hard short.

So I disconnected the kickdown switch, still blows. I then disconnected the kickdown solenoid, still blows. I checked the visible segments of the wiring under the hood and did not find obvious shorts. However, after the 'wiggle check' the gas gauge came back alive with a blown fuse...hmmm.

So troubleshooting will continue once I get the wiring prints and can see what other equipment is on that circuit.

During this exercise, I was very impressed with the condition of the car and the condition of the wiring. I am very happy with the purchase.

It was originally delivered through Overvold's in Fargo and has the dealer plaque on the trunk. Its a nice touch.

I was very impressed with the size of the opened power roof. It is very cool to drive it on a warm day with the windows and roof open...

Pics:

Dont know why the site rotated the pics...jeez. if someone knows how to fix that, please advise ...I deal with enough complicated computer stuff but functional stuff, not posting images...
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 05:58:19 PM by wrench »
1951 Series 62 Sedan
1969 Eldorado
1970 Eldorado (Triple Black w/power roof)
1958 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4
2005 F250
2014 FLHP
2014 SRX

Offline D.Smith

  • Posts: 1547
  • CLC Number: 17592
  • Name: Dave Smith
Re: 1970 Eldorado
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2017, 10:03:43 PM »
Here are the photos I took of it in April of 2016.     I stopped to look at it for a friend up North.   He was asking more money at the time and considering what it needed he passed on it.    The price he had it now was far better but my friend had already bought another Cadillac by now.

Offline Scot Minesinger

  • Posts: 6004
Re: 1970 Eldorado
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2017, 10:19:20 PM »
Great car!  The most powerful Cadillac spanning about a century from 1902 until maybe when the Escalade (with 403hp) or maybe the V series.

Had this short happen to me on a 1972 Eldorado where gas gauge did not work - same issue.  My car was highly molested and had to order a used wiring harness to fix it.  The problem was that the wires down by the starter had frayed/cracked insulation.  Rewrap all the wires at starter with electrical tape and see if that does not fix it.  Then you if that fixes it you can make it more durable/more appealing.  I tried the kick down and all of that and it was down by starter.  Hope this saves you some time.

Put replacing the timing chain on your list.  Check the CV boots for cracks/ruptures.  Half the fun is getting them straightened out.

Enjoy!
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Offline Glen

  • Posts: 2789
  • CLC Number: 727
  • Name: Glen Houlton
Re: 1970 Eldorado
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2017, 02:09:43 AM »
Why do you want to change the starter to a geared starter? 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 10193
Re: 1970 Eldorado
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2017, 09:16:00 AM »
Looks like that has some less common options on it.

I didn't know anyone made another starter for the Eldo's.  Let us know how it works. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline Tpicks55

  • Posts: 168
  • 1975 Eldorado Convert 1994 Deville Concours
  • CLC Number: 28988
  • Name: Tony Giannantonio
Re: 1970 Eldorado
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2017, 10:28:47 AM »
Nice car!  If I didn't have my cadillacs I sure would love one like that.
75 Eldorado Convertible
94 Deville Concurs
2019 Lincoln Continental
2016 Cadillac XTS

Offline bcroe

  • Posts: 3898
1970 Eldorado
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2017, 03:30:14 PM »
Quote from: Scot Minesinger
Great car!  The most powerful Cadillac spanning about
a century from 1902 until maybe when the Escalade (with 403hp) or maybe the V series.

Had this short happen to me on a 1972 Eldorado where gas gauge did not work - same issue.  My car was highly molested and had to order a used wiring harness to fix it.  The problem was that the wires down by the starter had frayed/cracked insulation.  Rewrap all the wires at starter with electrical tape and see if that does not fix it.  Then you if that fixes it you can make it more durable/more appealing.  I tried the kick down and all of that and it was down by starter.  Hope this saves you some time.

Put replacing the timing chain on your list.  Check the CV boots for cracks/ruptures.  Half the fun is getting them straightened out. 

Take Scott's advice; guess Scott still loves working on his cars, I prefer to make
that as simple and INFREQUENT as possible.  70 is a cool year all right; hope
you can get the kind of fuel it needs.  Electronic ignition is much superior to points. 

I have a geared starter on the shelf for backup; adapters for FWD and RWD.  Let
us know how that works for you.  As for the wiring down to the starter, some
BEAN COUNTER (may they burn in ....) figured it saved a nickel, causing these
problems.  My 62 brought all those wires to a terminal on the fender, AWAY FROM
heat, water, and vibration.  The battery cable went there and then continued (alone)
to the starter.  This works so well that now all my cars are wired that way.  Bruce Roe
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 03:32:31 PM by bcroe »

Offline wrench

  • Posts: 1000
  • CLC Number: 27930
  • Name: Jim Cullen
Re: 1970 Eldorado
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2017, 06:12:28 PM »
Dave, thanks for the pics, that's the car. His sell was a lot lower than his ask this time.
He is a good guy and knows the 70 Eldorado very well.

Scot, you are probably right about the wiring, The right exhaust donut has a leak and i did do a light wiggle check in the area and that may account for the change in the issue. I will be doing the donut and wire harness in that area for sure.

Glen, I had a big block FE Ford and got tired of dealing with reman starters and hot no starts. I put a RobbMC high torque mini starter on it and it was night v. day.

Mr Hopland, I will advise. RobbMC makes a Caddy 500 starter but not for Eldorado. I did find one on the internet and will advise if successful.

Thanks 55 and Bruce, I am an aircraft mechanic, so if i need to, I can use 110LL if it comes to it. Back in the day, a buddy ran an old Eldorado on it since we had 55 gallon drums of it laying around...long story.

1951 Series 62 Sedan
1969 Eldorado
1970 Eldorado (Triple Black w/power roof)
1958 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4
2005 F250
2014 FLHP
2014 SRX

Offline Scot Minesinger

  • Posts: 6004
Re: 1970 Eldorado
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2017, 06:45:22 PM »
I am like Bruce and have no tolerance for break downs due to lack of preventative maintenance or lack of forethought into preventing it.  Ye enjoy working on my Cadillacs, nothing better than having the entire top of the engine apart, being careful, and when you turn the key it is fires in 1/4 second.

On the starter, I had a genuine original Cadillac starter rebuilt locally and it works great.  Mine is a 1970 high compression 472, doubt an extra 28 cubic inches due to longer stroke makes much difference.  It never fails to crank with authority even when it is 100'F outside after a long drive.  Guard against modifications unless they really improve the car for two reasons:

1.  It makes it more difficult for anyone else to work on your car - you never know
2.  Modifications do reduce value and best to keep your options open - plus no one ever complained about Cadillacs starting back in the 1970's. BTW - The purists will wear on you like water on the rocks.  I would keep the starter stock.

Whatever you do enjoy it, or what is the point!

Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Offline wrench

  • Posts: 1000
  • CLC Number: 27930
  • Name: Jim Cullen
Re: 1970 Eldorado
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 07:05:47 PM »
Scot, I will probably send the core out to a shop that does heavy duty field windings and try to find an NOS armature to beef up the stock starter, then go with that.

The geared starter will be a temporary (um) solution until I do that.

I do like stock/original as much as practical, but not a Luddite, either.

Also, I will see how the timing comes in with the pertronix install and see if it wanders a bit, maybe do the timing chain.

I haven't done a compression check or hooked up a vacuum gauge yet.

Once I start to sort out the issues, I can prioritize what needs to be done. The motor runs well, no really bad noises or leaks or smoke. None of which I have a tolerance for.

1951 Series 62 Sedan
1969 Eldorado
1970 Eldorado (Triple Black w/power roof)
1958 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4
2005 F250
2014 FLHP
2014 SRX

Offline Glen

  • Posts: 2789
  • CLC Number: 727
  • Name: Glen Houlton
Re: 1970 Eldorado
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2017, 03:07:04 AM »
I have a 68 Eldorado that I put 300,000 miles on and I had a 70 Eldorado beater.  I have not had any problems with the starters except normal wear and tear. 
Well, there was the worn timing chain on the 70 that caused kick back on the starter and damaging the clutch. 

Moral of the story…Change the timing chain.  Sooner than later. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Offline wrench

  • Posts: 1000
  • CLC Number: 27930
  • Name: Jim Cullen
Re: 1970 Eldorado
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2017, 07:02:42 AM »
I have a 68 Eldorado that I put 300,000 miles on and I had a 70 Eldorado beater.  I have not had any problems with the starters except normal wear and tear. 
Well, there was the worn timing chain on the 70 that caused kick back on the starter and damaging the clutch. 

Moral of the story…Change the timing chain.  Sooner than later.

Ha, ok...a word to the wise as they say...
1951 Series 62 Sedan
1969 Eldorado
1970 Eldorado (Triple Black w/power roof)
1958 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4
2005 F250
2014 FLHP
2014 SRX

Offline Scot Minesinger

  • Posts: 6004
Re: 1970 Eldorado
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2017, 12:55:23 PM »
Jim,

Do a search on the timing chain issue in this forum and it may be the most commonly written about mechanical issue. 

Executive summary:  Every Cadillac made 1963 into the 1980's had a nylon coated sprocket on the cam and the nylon chips off sometimes.  Also in the era starting in early mid 1970's chains seem to have stretched a bit.  Obviously these problems exist more with high mileage than low, but it should be done even on low mileage.  The 472/500 block for 1970 is an interference engine.  Pretty much if you buy a 472/500 powered Cadillac the first thing you do is make sure the timing chain has been replaced and if not you do it.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Offline bcroe

  • Posts: 3898
1970 Eldorado
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2017, 01:14:39 PM »
When I walk around a car show, I carry a couple things.  One is a cam sprocket with
half the plastic teeth missing.  The other is a decades old splitting clutch pack seal I
removed from a TH400 trans.  One guy said "You are scaring me!"  I said, "GOOD!". 
Bruce Roe

Offline wrench

  • Posts: 1000
  • CLC Number: 27930
  • Name: Jim Cullen
Re: 1970 Eldorado
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 05:55:54 PM »
Scot, ah the old plastic timing gear thing. definitely affects the priority level.

I had read that it is an interference engine.

Message received.

I am traveling at the moment and wont be back to the ranch until the weekend.

I will post a pic of my engine hoist set up.

it is interesting to say the least, but not for the faint of heart.

I bought it from an injection molding plant and they used it to move the molds around.

3 ton, They modified it to lift cantilevered with ballast on the back.

I dont even know if it will roll under this car yet...



1951 Series 62 Sedan
1969 Eldorado
1970 Eldorado (Triple Black w/power roof)
1958 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4
2005 F250
2014 FLHP
2014 SRX

 

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