'61 vapor return line

[David Greenburg]

I am looking to add a vapor return line on my '61, and the sources I can find for pre-bent lines seem to indicate that they fit convertibles. I can understand that a convertible floorpan might be a bit different, but am wondering if anyone has successfully installed a pre-bent line on a '61 or '62 hardtop.  The parts book is no help on this issue; it just lists 1/4" line, which of course is the other option, although I'd be more comfortable with that if I had an old one as a guide.

[Dan LeBlanc]

They run right next to the supply line. There's a ready made template right there. I bought Inline Tube's supply line and it wasn't even close. That's why you have the rubber section where the previous owner had an electric pump (instead of rebuilding the original). 

[David Greenburg]

Dan - Thanks. I was wondering about that extended segment of rubber fuel line. While your experience with Inline was  unfortunate, it's helpful  to know that they miss the mark here.  It sounds like going the pre-bent route could be a waste of time and money.  I think between using the fuel line as a template and my '60 as an additional reference, it should be pretty clear how to run it.   

[Scott Halver]

David,
I put new fuel lines on my 1960 Cadillac about 2 years ago-   supply and return line, positioned together.   The pre-bent fuel lines are way off and require a lot of re-bending.  Fortunately I had the original lines as a guide..... still have them hanging from the ceiling of my shop.   I "re-plumbed" the carburation to stock with the glass fuel filter.   As for the "re-plumbing" I'm not sure I improved the situation........  have had some serious vapor lock issues.    The old "plumbing" on the car (not stock) allowed a lot of gas (used a "T" and an in-line fuel filter, so half returned) to return to the gas tank.......   and at the time I thought, wow, I'm loosing a lot of fuel that might cause the engine to starve under full throttle-   was rebuilding engine/carbs and wanted to be able to open up the tri-power.   I now realize it may have been a 1970's - 1980's fix to keep the car from vapor locking.   My current glass filter bowl has a pin hole to allow the vapors to escape ............. but maybe I need a larger hole?            I believe the fuel supply line is 5/16 .......... but my 1970 corvette has a 3/8 supply line and NO Vapor Lock.   I've wondered about if I used a larger supply line...... but not sure if the mechanical fuel pump could keep up ?    I have an electric fuel pump now for backup ........ haven't gone through a summer so I don't know how that is all going to go.   This fuel stuff just keeps getting worse.   I don't know if any of the above helps but might give you something to think about.   SHalver CLC #24920

[David Greenburg]

Scott:

You have  return line and are still having vapor lock issues? I thought adding a return line would eliminate or sharply reduce vapor lock.   My '60 Seville (w/ac) has never vapor locked, even when it was running very hot/ overheating during my ill-fated trip to last year's GN.

[Scott Halver]

David,
Yes, vapor lock big time.    It happens when I drive to a car show at 4:00 pm and then turn the car off, leave hood closed-  say 105-108 degrees out.   When we get ready to leave at say 5;30pm, so still hot, maybe 95 degrees ........ and if you just start the car, put it into drive and go........ the car will drive for maybe 50 yards and then die and not restart for a long time ......... can crank and crank.    So, I now start the car and rev the engine for like 1 to 2 minutes and make really sure that I've pumped some fuel through (open hood when I first stop for say 5 minutes to let the heat out, car running cool).    Has also happened when I come home, its hot out and if I idle too long opening the garage and so forth the car will die...... vapor lock and cranking the engine will not work..... just have to wait .... for like 2 hours with the hood up to really cool things down.

I put an electric fuel pump on at the end of the summer, so maybe I can turn it on and push through the vapor lock.

How much "return" do you have on your 1960 Cadillac ?    just the pin hole on the glass fuel filter or is it plumbed larger ? ... which would keep more fuel moving through the system at low idle

I appreciate Your Ideas & Opinions, Scott

[Roger Zimmermann]

To avoid such annoying situations, I would take with me a bottle of water and pour some water on the mechanical fuel pump. I does wonders!

[David Greenburg]

Scott - I'll take advantage of the time I have to kill waiting for the car to cool down and start again after vapor locking again to respond to you.  It sounds like you have much more severe circumstances- temps over 100, so you might benefit from both a return line and an electric pump.  In my case, once again the car vapor locked when it was maybe 80 degrees, with a nice breeze.  The other thing my car is doing is being hard to start when cold, even though the choke appears to be working.  A shot of starting fluid and it starts right up and drives fine, which makes me think the choke is doing its job.  I'm beginning to think it might be a weak fuel pump.

Roger- Yes, anything that is cool will help, although the last time this happened I had my wife bring a bunch of ice, which I packed around the pump and filter and it still took over an hour to get started.

[Dan LeBlanc]

I'm leaning towards fuel pump also. The one you have was installed in 2013 so it's got some miles on it.

Check the pin on the fuel pump arm. They're known to walk out. Might be out just enough that it impedes your pumping action.

I didn't do the rebuild on the pump myself so I'm not sure if an ethanol resistant kit was used or not. There's also a poppet valve in them that can pop out. Maybe pull the cover off and take a peek.

[P. Manoogian]

I bought the rolls of the nickle/copper lines and bent them myself for my 61. The form and flare very easily.

[David Greenburg]

I think the fuel pump is the problem. Even after it cooled off, it still wouldn't start without a shot of starting fluid.  I have a spare pump left over from my '59 that I'm going to put on. 
If it was done in 2013, it doesn't have that many miles on it, but with an unknown rebuilder, anything can happen. Although I will check the poppet valve.  So if the spare pump solves the problem, I'll have the original rebuilt with ethanol-resistant parts.  I had posted separately about trouble with cold starts, but I think that is also likely due to a weak pump.