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Cadillac model names XTS, CT6, and the like

Started by Scot Minesinger, May 24, 2017, 10:03:16 AM

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Scot Minesinger

I read a lot on this forum about Cadillac names and how if Cadillac renamed their cars from a series of three letters to an actual name like "Eldorado" sales would increase.  While it would be nice if the models were named something else (easier to remember), it is not going to make a difference in sales.  It is not like if they renamed the ATS something great, I would go out and buy one or even desire to own one.  Is the barrier to you owning a new Cadillac the name - really?

Being an engineer and a car guy, my priorities for car purchase are:

1.  Styling
2.  Price, must be under 100k
3.  Size, must be larger, seats four comfortably (preferably 5)
4.  Drivetrain, must be V-8 and RWD

The name is not even on my list, unless it is called "Scot is a Loser" the name has absolutely no influence on me.

Honestly does the model name detour you from buying a model car?

Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

30326

Can't say that a three-letter model name would put me off buying. However it do put me off even going to the dealership and looking on the cars. If I was a person not interested in cars and wanted a meaningless car that would take me to and from the work I would off course buy a car with a three-letter name.

Give me one reason I should go to a Cadillac dealer and look on something called XTS, CT6 and the likes? I rather buy a model called "Idiot" than buying something as non-descript as a three-letter car.

Cadillacs are supposed to be better than regular cars. At least they used to be and the current price-tag indicates that the car is still a "luxury" car. Maybe if they used XXX as the model name...

Big Apple Caddy

I prefer names like DeVille, Fleetwood, Seville, etc on Cadillacs mostly for nostalgic reasons just as I also prefer alphanumeric names on Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, etc models mostly for nostalgic reasons.  However, model name is not a very important factor for me when it comes to shopping for or choosing a car.  Even though I prefer a name like Seville, it would not make me want the CT6 more if it was called Seville.  Even though I prefer a name like DeVille, it would not make me want the XTS more if it was called DeVille, etc.

I personally like that Lincoln went with Continental for its MKS replacement but is that helping sales?  The MKS with its 3-letter name sold better in its early years than the Continental is now, although that may speak more to the overall continuing decline in large sedan sales than the name.  But even Cadillac's aging similarly sized, similarly priced XTS with its 3-letter name is selling around 33% better than Continental so far this year with all of Continental's publicity.

For better or worse, the world has become more and more global and luxury car alphanumeric model names dominate the field.

7gen

#3
Model names are easier to associate with levels of quality. What kind of cachet goes with CTS? I don't think it carries the same cachet as Eldorado.

The name is associative. Part of buy in for a car is the emotion it evokes, not just the features. It is the sizzle, not the steak. All part of distinguishing the brand from every other great car out there.

smokuspollutus

I think they should just find something and stick with it. For the longest time they used just a small pool of names and it worked out well. Many years ago there might have been some jumbling (Eldorado Seville, Fleetwood Eldorado) that might be confusing, but I think most people in the position to buy an expensive car today remember the time when Cadillac used deVille, Seville, Eldorado, Fleetwood as separate model names. The current naming scheme is showing some cracks, XT5, XTS, CT6, CTS, is a little ridiculous. I think using the traditional names will make the brand more unique, and alleviate the confusion.

Rich S

#5
For me, I also rank styling as the most important consideration, when it comes to a luxury car. Part of the aura of Cadillac was the emotion the brand stirred, and alpha-numeric names just do not do that for anyone. Perhaps it would be more acceptable to use those on a smaller model--signifying a "new direction" and purpose for the brand. Otherwise, I agree with most of the others who have replied, a real name is preferred, but the name itself is not a "deal breaker" for me. Many great vehicles focus on the same theme for decades with success (i.e. a Porsche 911 model) and for example, Fleetwood was always associated with the top-of-the-line Cadillac. The current naming scheme has not even been implemented properly by Cadillac--the change should have been done simultaneously--but instead, there is an XTS and an XT5 with one a sedan and one a crossover SUV, while the CTS and CT6 are supposed to be distinguishable as one significantly below the other in Cadillac's hierarchy? It is not rocket science to come up with an emotion stirring, classy name fitting with Cadillac's dwindling prestige. It is very disturbing to me to watch the continued blunders by the executives running Cadillac. I wish the GM Board of Directors would step-in and correct this mis-direction of their finest automobile division. I'm tired of reading they are trying to re-invent the brand--this has been going on since at least 2002 when the CTS model was introduced, and likely before that occurred. What they are doing does not seem to be working.
Rich Sullivan CLC #11473

1971 Eldo Conv., 2013 CTS Cpe

Mike Baillargeon #15848

I think the reason Cadillac went with the 3 letters or letters and a number was because it would force you to say the brand name "Cadillac" and then CT6...or   "Cadillac" XTS  etc....

What car is that?    It's a Fleetwood....or.....  it's an Eldorado......   The marketing people wanted the word Cadillac to be mentioned.

But you guys are right.......it's an Eldorado Biarritz  or  it's a Fleetwood Brougham has a better ring to it than is a ct6........

Mike  #15848

Mike
Baillargeon
#15848

chrisntam

#7
Maybe, we're showing our age?

I too dislike the alpha numeric names.  I have no idea which car is the entry level and which is the top of the line.

This question should also be asked of some younger folks who are still in the acquistion/consumption stage, not just us old(er) farts.
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Walter Youshock

#8
When Cadillac used names like "Fleetwood",  "deville" and "Eldorado", nobody HAD to ask:  "what kind of car is that?" Because they LOOKED like Cadillacs and had the STATURE and DIGNITY of the NAME "CADILLAC".

So what car company do you think of when you hear "Escalade"?  Instantly recognized as Cadillac.  XYZ, ZIT, ZOT, POS...  could be anything...
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: 7gen on May 24, 2017, 02:16:55 PM
Model names are easier to associate with levels of quality. What kind of cachet goes with CTS? I don't think it carries the same cachet as Eldorado.

Mercedes-Benz, BMW, etc models have been able to carry a lot of cachet with their alphanumeric names.   I don't know that new car buyers these days necessarily feel "actual" names like Eldorado, Seville, etc can or would have more cachet.

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: smokuspollutus on May 24, 2017, 02:39:57 PM
I think they should just find something and stick with it.
That would help.


Quote from: smokuspollutus on May 24, 2017, 02:39:57 PM
The current naming scheme is showing some cracks, XT5, XTS, CT6, CTS, is a little ridiculous.
YES but the problem here is that Cadillac's model names are in transition mode right now.  As new/replacement models are introduced, they are to carry CT (cars) or XT (crossovers) names followed by a number identifying position in the lineup e.g., CT4, CT6, XT4, XT6, etc.  Cadillac's replacement model names are pretty straightforward but brand new names, even word names, typically bring unfamiliarity and confusion at first especially when they are still mixed in with outgoing model names.  Cadillac may have been better off moving all models to the new naming structure at the same time instead of waiting for each new/replacement model to make the change.

Caddyjack

I don't think any of the current Cadillac models even have the name Cadillac on them anymore. :(
Jack Larson
Philadelphia, PA

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: Rich S on May 24, 2017, 04:14:42 PM
Fleetwood was always associated with the top-of-the-line Cadillac.
There hasn't always been that kind of consistency.  There have been many times in Cadillac's history, especially in latter decades, when Fleetwood wasn't the top of the line.  In the 1993-96 era, Fleetwood was almost at the bottom of the Cadillac lineup as far as its base price.  I don't know how many buyers, especially those on the younger side, today would associate Fleetwood with top of the line.


Quote from: Rich S on May 24, 2017, 04:14:42 PM
The current naming scheme has not even been implemented properly by Cadillac--the change should have been done simultaneously
Agree!

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: Mike Baillargeon  #15848 on May 24, 2017, 06:15:20 PM
I think the reason Cadillac went with the 3 letters or letters and a number was because it would force you to say the brand name "Cadillac" and then CT6...or   "Cadillac" XTS  etc....

What car is that?    It's a Fleetwood....or.....  it's an Eldorado......   The marketing people wanted the word Cadillac to be mentioned.
This was one of the reasons floating around many years ago as to why brands like Cadillac, Lincoln, and Acura switched to alphanumeric model names.


Quote from: Mike Baillargeon  #15848 on May 24, 2017, 06:15:20 PMit's an Eldorado Biarritz  or  it's a Fleetwood Brougham has a better ring to it than is a ct6........
More familiar, at least to older people, but I don't know it can be said that it's better.  There is really no evidence to show that today's luxury new car buyers prefer "actual" names over alphanumeric model names.  If anything, the strong and even record sales of various luxury import brands could suggest alphanumeric names are preferred/better these days.

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: Walter Youshock on May 24, 2017, 07:33:47 PM
When Cadillac used names like "Fleetwood",  "deville" and "Eldorado", nobody HAD to ask:  "what kind of car is that?" Because they LOOKED like Cadillacs and had the STATURE and DIGNITY of the NAME "CADILLAC".
I think this has a lot more to do with familiarity and consistency (long term use) than because they were "actual" names.


Quote from: Walter Youshock on May 24, 2017, 07:33:47 PM
So what car company do you think of when you hear "Escalade"?  Instantly recognized as Cadillac.  XYZ, ZIT, ZOT, POS...  could be anything...
Escalade is strongly associated with Cadillac because the name has been continuously used on the same vehicle type (large SUV) for close to 20 years.  The same strong association would've been there today if they had given it with a 3-letter model name like ESV.  Many alphanumeric model names that were used for a long time are easily associated with their related brand too.

smokuspollutus

BAC, that would make sense but this whole naming mess came about close to 30 years ago when they were soul searching and hasn't stopped yet.  Since then, we've gone through 3 badges, at least as many naming schemes, discontinued many models, and its still shows no signs of stopping. When will they be out of "transition"? Part of a high quality good is consistency. In those same 30 years Mercedes and BMW have been producing the same style cars under mostly the same names, using the same logo and they are considered the benchmark of luxury. As long as the marque makes these fly-by-night decisions on what it wants to be, they can only aspire to be second best.

The other part of a luxury good is exclusivity. Why shouldn't Cadillac be the only major luxury player to use a full name for their vehicles? 

Walter Youshock

BAC--what Cadillacs do you currently own/drive or have owned or driven...  just curious....

We are talking CADILLACS here, not BMW and Mercedes.  According to your logic, chevy should abolish "Corvette" for something like "2ST" and they'll sell billions of them.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: smokuspollutus on May 24, 2017, 11:23:42 PM
BAC, that would make sense but this whole naming mess came about close to 30 years ago when they were soul searching and hasn't stopped yet.  Since then, we've gone through 3 badges, at least as many naming schemes, discontinued many models, and its still shows no signs of stopping. When will they be out of "transition"? Part of a high quality good is consistency. In those same 30 years Mercedes and BMW have been producing the same style cars under mostly the same names, using the same logo and they are considered the benchmark of luxury. As long as the marque makes these fly-by-night decisions on what it wants to be, they can only aspire to be second best.
You mean with cars like the Seville STS?  Although Cadillac did start using acronyms for trim level names in the late 1980s, I wouldn't say the real alphanumeric model name push started until 2003 with CTS which was followed by SRX in 2004, STS in 2005, DTS in 2006, etc.  DeNysschen then came in and is looking to change names to CT4, CT6, XT4, XT6, etc.

The problem Cadillac, as well as Lincoln, faced during these times is that the cars that once sold SO well for them and they were SO associated with (large to very large cars like DeVille, Town Car, etc) started to lose appeal to new car buyers forcing Cadillac and Lincoln to have to adapt and reinvent themselves to a much greater degree than the imports whose typically smaller, more performance/handling oriented models remained popular or increased in popularity.  The imports didn't have the "baggage" that the domestics did in the "new" and more global luxury market.


Quote from: smokuspollutus on May 24, 2017, 11:23:42 PM
The other part of a luxury good is exclusivity. Why shouldn't Cadillac be the only major luxury player to use a full name for their vehicles?
I think you'd be talking more uniqueness than exclusivity.  Exclusivity as far as luxury is more about being expensive, only for the wealthy, etc.  Unfortunately, Cadillac and many other luxury brands have lowered their standards there.

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: Walter Youshock on May 25, 2017, 05:44:18 AM
BAC--what Cadillacs do you currently own/drive or have owned or driven...  just curious....
The only Cadillac I have right now is a 2003 Seville STS.


Quote from: Walter Youshock on May 25, 2017, 05:44:18 AM
We are talking CADILLACS here, not BMW and Mercedes.  According to your logic, chevy should abolish "Corvette" for something like "2ST" and they'll sell billions of them.
Not really.  Alphanumeric model names are more dominant in the broader market Cadillac competes in as a brand while the narrower Corvette (which is just one model) market still has a number of models that carry "actual" names e.g., Boxster, Camaro, Cayman, Challenger, Corvette, Mustang, Viper, etc.  Also, the overall sports car market hasn't changed as much against once popular domestic tastes/preferences as the luxury car market.

smokuspollutus

Yes, I was referring to the Cadillac Seville Seville Touring Sedan, Cadillac Seville Seville Luxury Sedan, Cadillac Eldorado Eldorado Sports Coupe (ironically not the sports model ???), the Cadillac Deville Deville Highluxury(?) Sedan, and all their iterations that started them down this road. What I am getting at here is that Cadillac needs to get away from the 3 letter mess that they've created. First the letters were redundant but had meaning, then they kind of made sense and didn't mean anything at all, and now they're back to meaning something again all the while part of the old stuff will be lurking for years to come. Provided they don't decide on yet another algebraic shakeup in the meantime! I stood around the CT6 at the auto show to admire, and within about 10 minutes I had heard it called the CTS6 at least 3 times. How bad is it that people don't know the name of the brands flagship? No one called the Continental the MKC. I am in support of any concise naming system that won't be shaken up every few years in a hair-brained attempt to get nonexistant rich young people to buy luxury cars but lets face it that the 3 letter thing has to go, its beyond repair. I feel that using the traditional names would be the best insurance against further patchwork, not to mention the brand has a rich heritage with them.

I am curious; what exactly has changed so greatly in the luxury field? Luxury SUV's and fully equipped pickups share almost identical dimensions, seating and towing capacities, and ride as the cars of decades ago, and sales for them are through the roof! Seems to me that the only thing that happened was the barges of the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s just got taller...

What is your opinion on the course that should be taken?