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Flathead manifolds

Started by tturley, August 19, 2017, 12:51:05 PM

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tturley

I have been chasing exhaust leak on my Lasalle and fixed obvious leak at crossover but I think I need to replace manifold to block gaskets. Is it possible to remove manifold with crossover connected ?
I hate to disturb that connection while it's working.
Member # 28929
1940 Lasalle model 5019
2011 Escalade platinum Edition
1995 Ford F-150
2015 Buick Enclave

Jeff Hansen

Tom,

Yes, you can remove the exhaust manifolds as one unit without disconnecting the crossover.

Jeff
Jeff Hansen
1941 6019S Sixty Special
1942 7533 Imperial Sedan

Steve Passmore

Sounds like you have the classic flathead problem. The metal surface of the block where the crossover sit's is desperately thin and gets eaten away with successive gasket blows. Because the metal is gone every new gasket gives out.   The only solution is usually to have the block skimmed at the manifold surface. Of all the engines I have done about 30% require this.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

tturley

Thanks for the info. Are the copper or the fiber gaskets best ?
Member # 28929
1940 Lasalle model 5019
2011 Escalade platinum Edition
1995 Ford F-150
2015 Buick Enclave

Bob Schuman

Tom,
If the gasket surfaces on the block are not perfectly flat and smooth, I suggest you look on the internet for "Pyro-Putty". They make several varieties, and what is best is the one rated for 2400 degrees F. I used this on the crossover of my 40 LaSalle  a few years ago, and it is still holding. Also, I had best luck with the copper gaskets.

The Pyro-Putty is an epoxy type material that you spread onto the surface needing repair, then after 24 hours cure time, machine or hand file just like metal to a flat smooth surface. I'm not great at hand filing, but had no trouble doing the repair. A professional restorer friend recommended the Pyro-Putty, which he has used on various other repairs.
Bob Schuman
Bob Schuman, CLC#254
2017 CT6-unsatisfactory (repurchased by GM)
2023 XT5

tturley

Thanks Bob. It is a very small leak and I am hoping the surface is good but I will check on some pyro putty
Member # 28929
1940 Lasalle model 5019
2011 Escalade platinum Edition
1995 Ford F-150
2015 Buick Enclave

tturley

I just checked on eBay and ther are 2 products.
Pyro-putty.
And pyro putty
Two different companies and both are 2400 degree
Member # 28929
1940 Lasalle model 5019
2011 Escalade platinum Edition
1995 Ford F-150
2015 Buick Enclave

Bobby B

You might have to remove the studs in order to file it down evenly. Be sure you stuff something in the block so nothing gets in there......
                                                                                                          Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Steve Passmore

Wow, that sounds like really great stuff.   Doesn't seem to be available in my country or that would have saved me a lot of trouble in the past.  Seems expensive but better than a strip down.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Bobby B

Quote from: Steve Passmore on August 19, 2017, 03:14:12 PM
Wow, that sounds like really great stuff.   Doesn't seem to be available in my country or that would have saved me a lot of trouble in the past.  Seems expensive but better than a strip down.

Steve,
Hi. Like High Temp J-B Weld........
                                     Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Steve Passmore

We can get that here Bobby but its only rated at 400f. Nowhere near the 2400f of  "Pyro-Putty"  I did try JB for the very repair in question a few years back and when I checked it after 6 months it was powdery, rather like body filler. Guess that area gets to more than 400f. So it was back to block skimming.

Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Bobby B

Quote from: Steve Passmore on August 19, 2017, 04:32:47 PM
We can get that here Bobby but its only rated at 400f. Nowhere near the 2400f of  "Pyro-Putty"  I did try JB for the very repair in question a few years back and when I checked it after 6 months it was powdery, rather like body filler. Guess that area gets to more than 400f. So it was back to block skimming.

Steve,
If you want some, I'll send it over the pond when my neighbor goes back home to visit......
                                                                                                                       Bobby

https://www.amazon.com/Pyro-Putty-2400-Metal-Sealer/dp/B00AKJF2KO
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Steve Passmore

Some of what Bobby? the pyro putty?  That's a Stirling idea :)
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

tripwire

You might look at these gaskets.  I've heard good reports from some people that have used them.

http://catalog.remflex.com/

From the website: "Remflex Performance Promise

• Seals Warped Flanges:
Remflex exhaust gaskets come in a standard 1/8-inch thickness and are designed to crush 50%. This allows them to fill gaps in the flange surface up to 1/16-inch! Remflex Performance Promise

• Won’t Burn Out:
100% flexible graphite construction means Remflex gaskets are good for up to 3,000 degrees Fâ€"far exceeding that of any vehicle’s exhaust system temperature!

• No Re-Torquing Necessary:
Remflex exhaust gaskets rebound 30%, creating an optimum seal that eliminates the need to re-torque!

About Remflex
Remflex’s unique flexible graphite material has been proven for more than 30 years in industrial applications, where temperatures routinely exceed 2,000 degreesâ€"day after day, week after week, year after year. Now, we’re bringing this technology to enthusiasts of all kinds to eliminate exhaust leaks for good! Whether you have an old pick-up that needs a manifold gasket, or a race car with custom-built headers, you can be assured that Remflex exhaust gaskets will work properly the first time, every time.

The Science
Remflex gaskets work because they solve the two main problems associated with sealing an exhaust flange: Warping, and gasket failure."


WParo in VT
Driving now:
2013 CTS4 Performance Coupe
1940 LaSalle 5229 C4D

A few I used to drive:
1976 Cadillac Ambulance
1969 Cadillac Hearse, Superior Body
1966 Buick Wildcat Hearse
1957 Ford Thunderbird x 3, 1 E code, 2 D code
1956 Oldsmobile Rocket 88 Sedan
1949 Mercury Convertible
1949 Mercury Coupe, Mild Custom
1936 Buick Special Sedan

tturley

Those look very interesting. They list for a 346 Cadillac but I am sure the 322 Lasalle is they same.
Wonder why no crossover included
Member # 28929
1940 Lasalle model 5019
2011 Escalade platinum Edition
1995 Ford F-150
2015 Buick Enclave

Steve Passmore

322 is the same and that protruded part in the center of the gasket IS the crossover.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Bob Schuman

The Pyro-Putty I used is the one with the hyphen between Pyro and Putty. If the one without the hyphen is different, I have no knowledge of that one. It worked very well on the block surface where the repair is captured between the block and manifold, may not be so good on an exposed surface such as a manifold crack-I have no experience with that.

I was aware of the Remflex gaskets that seem great, but heard or read comments that they only work for a short while, then fail early, so I did not try them.
Bob Schuman
Bob Schuman, CLC#254
2017 CT6-unsatisfactory (repurchased by GM)
2023 XT5

las39

Quote from: Steve Passmore on August 20, 2017, 02:39:37 AM
322 is the same and that protruded part in the center of the gasket IS the crossover.

In my engine, that protruded part in the center of the gasket is for the infamous carburetor preheating  ;D
1939 LaSalle 5027
1941 Chrysler Royal Coupe
1934 Oldsmobile F34
1976 Moto Guzzi Convert

Steve Passmore

#18
Your engine is the same as everyone else's flathead. That's the area we are discussing here, the cross over for the carb heating. That's the area that gets burned away. Not usually a problem with the other exhaust crossover on top of the manifold.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

las39

I was sure the crossover (balance) was the top one so I had to look it up.

"A crossover pipe, each system works by balancing the exhaust pulses from either side or cylinder bank of a V-style engine. The result is a smooth exhaust flow and a more efficient engine."

The lower channel for the carburetor is too narrow and exhaust whirls around in a chamber and therefor cannot balance engine flow. There is only one crossover pipe.
So tturley is right, why are they not offering crossover gaskets.  :)

This heating subject was discussed earlier regarding paint coming off the manifold.
I solved these overheating problems by blocking the carburetor heater channel with steel wool and chimney putty, This putty is used for sealing chimneys for firewood stoves.
This was only done to intake manifold, the exhaust will flow in another direction and away from the affected area.
1939 LaSalle 5027
1941 Chrysler Royal Coupe
1934 Oldsmobile F34
1976 Moto Guzzi Convert