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Does anyone actually know if the 79 Eldo came with a cloth headliner?

Started by collector, January 05, 2018, 05:01:19 AM

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collector

I have a 16k mile all original 79 triple yepplow Biarritz with a sunroof. The headliner was replaced but the sail panels are cloth and not foam covered cloth as are the visors and the sunshade. I'm guessing the headliner was cloth covered as well? I'd like to put it back to original. Does anyone actually know? It looks to possibly have been the same material as the 75-79 Seville headliner material just glued to foam. I'd rather it be factory correct than take a wild guess. I would think since the other mentioned parts are cloth I'm guessing so would be the headliner. Please advise.

Barry M Wheeler #2189

My '81 Seville is cloth so I think you can safely say that the Eldorado is cloth all over. (It has a sunroof also). My '91 "A" pillars are cloth in that Seville as well and I think it was the most expensive car in the lineup. Where are the pictures of this find??? (I've never gone on the "picture reminder" bandwagon and suddenly, it seemed the right thing to do.)  I had to choose between a triple yellow '81 Eldo and my car when I was buying it. I almost bought both of them.
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

smokuspollutus

Everything was foam-backed except for the visors.  The sail panels have (had?) a sponge like material attached to them, whereas the headliner/shade are the usual type with foam bonded to the cloth.

Dan LeBlanc

All original?  Headliner has been replaced?  Scratching my head here to make the connection between the two    :o
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on January 05, 2018, 08:33:47 AM
My '91 "A" pillars are cloth in that Seville as well and I think it was the most expensive car in the lineup.

If you're talking base model cars and base prices, the Fleetwood and Allante were more expensive than Seville for '91.  The "entry" models were DeVille and Brougham and Allante was the most expensive.

Series75

All original in 2018
Original color code respray = original paint
Year correct engine = Original numbers matching engine
NOS replacement chrome & trim = untouched original
Period correct tires, battery = still sitting on factory rubber
New trunk kit = original spare and trunk
Rear seat never sat on = rear seat never sat on


Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#6
Quote from: collector on January 05, 2018, 05:01:19 AM
I have a 16k mile all original 79 triple yepplow Biarritz with a sunroof. The headliner was replaced but the sail panels are cloth and not foam covered cloth as are the visors and the sunshade. I'm guessing the headliner was cloth covered as well? I'd like to put it back to original. Does anyone actually know? It looks to possibly have been the same material as the 75-79 Seville headliner material just glued to foam. I'd rather it be factory correct than take a wild guess. I would think since the other mentioned parts are cloth I'm guessing so would be the headliner. Please advise.

If memory serves, headliner of 1st Gen Sevilles had cross stitching which divided the headliner into rectangular sections.  Eldorado headliner did not have this feature and yes, it was originally finished in the same material as the sail panels. 

Not a difficult job for most automotive upholstery shops, however the odds are unlikely the new headliner material will not match the original material in the sail panels and sun visors so you may want to consider having all of them redone if you want them to match one another.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Barry M Wheeler #2189

I KNEW that if I mentioned price, I'd be wrong. Just can't get ahead of you guys that stay up nights perusing all this stuff in fine print on your manuals and sales brochures. (I honestly had forgotten the Allante.)
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

e.mason

Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on January 05, 2018, 08:39:42 AM
All original?  Headliner has been replaced?  Scratching my head here to make the connection between the two    :o

Obviously he  meant he wanted to replace with the original material as it came off the assembly line.
Eric Mason

smokuspollutus

This is not a small job as the sunroof assembly needs to be dropped to get to the sunshade. The old school bow headliners were last used on a new bodied Cadillac in 1977 on the full size cars.

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: smokuspollutus on January 05, 2018, 12:52:20 PM
The old school bow headliners were last used on a new bodied Cadillac in 1977 on the full size cars.

How is a 1977 DeVille/Brougham headliner different than that used in 1978?

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

smokuspollutus


Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: smokuspollutus on January 05, 2018, 01:25:14 PM
They still used the bow headliner on the sedan models.

Not correct. All 1977 DeVille/Brougham had the new style one-piece headliner.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on January 05, 2018, 11:36:06 AM
I KNEW that if I mentioned price, I'd be wrong. Just can't get ahead of you guys that stay up nights perusing all this stuff in fine print on your manuals and sales brochures. (I honestly had forgotten the Allante.)

I knew it wasn't most expensive given the Allante but had to look up prices myself to see where it otherwise fell in line at that point.  At the beginning of that Seville generation's run in 1986, it was the most expensive (highest base price) model not counting limousines.

Even though Seville wasn't the most expensive Cadillac for '91, it was still a pricey car by today's standards with an inflation adjusted base price for the base Seville of over $62K.

collector

Ok, I know the headliners were all foam covered cloth. My cars visors, rear sail panel covers and sunroof cover are cloth just like in the Seville headliner that was sewn. I'm thinking the early Eldo's used cloth over foam instead of cloth/ foam used in most applications. I can get from SMS the original cloth for 85 per yard and glue over the foam style or just buy the yellow stiff they they used later on all cars. I'd wonderingbif it would be worth spending the extra money to make it factory correct.

bcroe

Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621
If memory serves, headliner of 1st Gen Sevilles had cross stitching which divided the headliner into rectangular sections.  Eldorado headliner did not have this feature and yes, it was originally finished in the same material as the sail panels. 

Does that cross stitch help hold it to the foam, or is it just surface
decoration?  My 79 Eldo had wiring problems in the ceiling, which
were not correctly shown in the manuals.  When enough of the
foam base was loose to trace it, I saw that the problem was the
light fixtures in the sails.  These inadequate fixtures were just
plastic, so when left on too long they would melt and cause all
sorts of  problems.  If you have these intact, I strongly recommend
the bulbs be replaced with some cool running LEDs. 

It was too late for mine, so I just wired them out of the overhead
circuit and got the rest working.  This was part of a 2 month, full
time thrash to get ready for the nearby 2015 nationals.  Other
things included brake overhaul, trans repair, and new 3" SS exhaust. 

The car did OK going to this national and a couple others about the
same time.  As I approached home on the last leg, the complete,
previously disturbed headliner fell down, obscuring my mirrors.  At
home I removed it, and found the car runs just fine without it. 
Bruce Roe

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: bcroe on January 27, 2018, 10:59:59 AM
Does that cross stitch help hold it to the foam, or is it just surface
decoration? 

Got me there...
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

smokuspollutus

OP, a picture of the pieces in question will answer whether its factory or not. Again, the sun shade should be the same material as the headliner. The visors are a slightly different type of fabric that is not foam backed with a plastic/rubberized trim around them.

Bruce, The stitching in the old style liners is functional, it holds the loop on the backside to which the metal bow slides into to suspend the liner. Hence it is a lifetime proposition instead of the foam stuff that eventually disintegrates. 

bcroe

Quote from: smokuspollutus
Bruce, The stitching in the old style liners is functional, it holds the loop on the backside to which the metal bow slides into to suspend the liner. Hence it is a lifetime proposition instead of the foam stuff that eventually disintegrates.

I drove a few cars with that older style headliner, never had any
trouble with them.  I suppose there is a way to convert back to them? 
Bruce Roe

smokuspollutus

Quote from: bcroe on January 27, 2018, 04:34:05 PM
I drove a few cars with that older style headliner, never had any
trouble with them.  I suppose there is a way to convert back to them? 
Bruce Roe

There are a number of companies out there that sell new bows, retainers and the liner to match. So it is possible, but you will lose the insulation of the fiber board and foam bonded to it, which is more than you might think.