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1939 Horn Problem

Started by 39LaSalleDriver, March 28, 2018, 10:47:15 AM

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39LaSalleDriver

Here we go again...I've got a LaSalle horn acting up. I've searched through the threads and found some information, but some of it is clear as mud. Everything works great...except when I connect the battery, the horn goes off automatically.

All the wiring is good, I've insulated the brass ferrule from the steering column, everything is great until I put the center button on and press it in and lock the tabs into place. It then honks continuously. Take the button out, horn stops. Press down on the spring until it contacts the metal of the steering column or any other metal portion, and it works the way it should...just without the button.

Now, my button consists of the following parts from this diagram that I have modified to accurately show the 1939 assembly that I have.

1.    The decorative face of horn button which has tabs that fold over and clasp part #2.

2.    A hard rubber or bakelite piece with small lugs of some type on the sides (my lugs are a bit worn/damaged but appear largely intact).

3.    A metal disk which fits up inside part #2 and has tabs which fit through the slots on part #3 that then bend over at a slight angle. The ears of the tabs are also bent at a slight angle. Inside this disk is a layer of some sort of adhesive or caulking which sandwiches between part #2 and 3.

4.    A metal cup which has slots around the edge to catch the tabs on part #2.

5.    A spring of which the smaller end wraps around the ferrule of part #6, and the larger end fits into the cup of part #4

6.    Connector wire which goes down the steering column and has a metal ferrule or contact button at the end. Mine was missing a sleeve to insulate it from the steering column, but I improvised by making some rubber bushings to fit in and keep it from grounding.

7.    The bezel which has ears that capture the tabs from part #3 when rotated into position.

8.    The horn ring which actuates when pressed down in theory. Fits into divots on the bolster in the center of the steering wheel. On each of the ends of mine is a dollop of what appears to be the same caulking/adhesive as between parts #2 and 3.

9.    The retaining nut which holds the steering wheel to the column.

10.    The steering wheel. The center bolster has divots or depressions which allow the horn ring #8 to pivot against it. At these divots, mine has some what appears to be very old masking tape placed in there to possibly serve as insulation? Original? Somebody modified at some time? I don't know.

Parts # �O� and “P� from the original MPL are missing (or never were there) from mine.

It seems to me that the assembly which I have more or less functions as is. My thinking is that the problem lies with the connection between parts #3 and 4. Since it is metal to metal contact between #3 and 4, it completes the circuit between #6 via the spring (#5) and the tabs of #3 locking into the bezel #7.

I would think I need to break that circuit either with a rubber spacer or something between the spring #5 and the cup portion of part #4, or somehow insulate the tabs of part #3 from making contact with the slots in #4.

Does anybody have any thoughts on how to solve this situation, or notice parts that I may be missing in my assembly that I need to insert or create?

Thanks,
Jon Isaacson

1939 LaSalle 5019

Steve Passmore

One problem is that they changed the design every year with the way the button grounded. The diagram you show is for the 41 which will be different than yours. Try to get your head around how the horn button is grounding as soon as you fix it into position. Something is too long somewhere. The button needs to be kept off the contact on the column by the spring just enough for you to be able to press it slightly to make contact.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Tom Boehm

#2
Hello Jon, I had a hunch so I looked at the picture in the parts book. The caption said "1941, typical of 1939 and 1940".  So you are looking at the right picture. It may be a 1941 steering wheel shown but the mechanism is the same. 

39LaSalleDriver

#3
Quote from: Steve Passmore on March 28, 2018, 12:42:02 PM
The diagram you show is for the 41 which will be different than yours.

Actually, not quite. The diagram was originally for the 41, but I modified it substantially (I used to be a graphic designer) to illustrate and reflect the actual parts that I have. To my knowledge, there is no illustration like this of the 39 setup so I made one. I erased the parts which I do not have, and inserted the ones which I do. I just didn't modify the illustration of the steering wheel itself as it didn't seem relevant but this new illustration reflects those changes so as to not confuse. I am hoping that someone with expertise in the 39 setup can chime in and tell me if I'm missing some parts.

I'll experiment around a bit with spacers and the spring and so forth to see what I come up with. Quick question though, are the tabs from my part #3 what catches the ears inside the bezel (part #7) or is it the "lugs" on part #2 which do? I had presumed it was the former, but if so, what purpose would these "lugs" serve? Car is in the shop having the rear main seal replaced, so I'll have to wait a few days before I can play with it. Meanwhile, any suggestions are certainly welcomed. Thanks again.

Jon Isaacson

1939 LaSalle 5019

Steve Passmore

Quote from: Tom Boehm on March 28, 2018, 08:25:19 PM
Hello Jon, I had a hunch so I looked at the picture in the parts book. The caption said "1941, typical of 1939 and 1940".  So you are looking at the right picture. It may be a 1941 steering wheel shown but the mechanism is the same.

Sorry Tom, can't accept that. There are numerous quotes in the MPB saying "typical of" but typical does not mean the same. I have had every year from 36 through 41 and although typical, there are minor differences in all the horn components. Clearances being critical here, it makes a difference if proper contact is to be made.  The OP has already stated "  I erased the parts which I do not have, and inserted the ones which I do"
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe