Proper Fan Hub for 1940 LaSalle 50-27

[grasshopper537]

Hi All. I am concerned that my fan hub is not correct in my restored 1940 LaSalle Coupe. The fan sits very close to the radiator, within an inch.
Can anyone share any information on the proper fan "hub" for this car? Were there two different sizes that still allowed the belt to line up?

At first I thought the engine was too far forward. I took measurements and asked around with a fellow lasalle owner. My measurements from firewall to engine cylinder head are exactly the same on both driver and passenger side with this fellow lasalle owner. But feel free to weigh in on those measurements as well. Can't hurt to have a few confirmations to eliminate that as the possibility.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

What's wrong with having a fan that close to the radiator??? It's not going anywhere. It's got 700 lbs of engine keeping it where it is. I don't have a car anymore to check, but I think you may be looking for a problem that doesn't exist. The pulley is the same from 1939-47. (I checked my Master Parts Book.)

[z3skybolt]

Grasshopper,

I have a 1940 5227.  The fan to radiator spacing is the same as yours.

Bob

[Jim Miller]

My '41 is about 1 inch also between fan and radiator. Not much manuvering room replacing belts.

[grasshopper537]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your replies and thoughts. Much appreciated.

I failed to mention earlier, that this car does NOT have the proper thickness radiator in it. It currently has a radiator that has only 3 rows of tubes to reduce the thickness.
Therefore, the fan doesn't hit the radiator now, but if it had the correct radiator, you wouldn't even be able to get that radiator installed with the lack of space. And even if I could install the correct radiator, the fan would definitely hit it. I have acquired the correct radiator for this car (which I would like to install for overheat purposes). So, now knowing this information....any other thoughts?

Still trying to determine for sure if the motor is too far forward, and/or the fan "hub" is correct. Sounds like hub is correct based on your responses. I'm again leaning towards motor too far forward again. Maybe I should go back to checking distance between firewall and left and right side of cylinder head. Would appreciate any of you with a 1940 lasalle taking a couple of measurements for me. I've had 2 people now call me with differing dimensions. Obviously, something is too long. It's either the motor too far forward, OR fan hub is too long. One call I received was a set of measurements taken from a woodie lasalle that matched my exact measurements, but that's possibly a commercial chassis. There could be a difference. The other phone call gave me measurements off of a 40 LaSalle coupe. Those measurements were different than mine by less than 3", indicating my motor is possibly too far forward.

Any additional 1940 LaSalle 5027 measurements would be greatly appreciated for a consensus to move forward with proper fix.

Thanks again all!

[Brad Ipsen CLC #737]

Very unlikely that the motor is in the wrong location and impossible for the fan hub to be in the wrong location as long as you have stock pulleys on it.  The location of the fan/pulley assembly is set by the crankshaft pulley.  I guess it is possible to have the front motor mounts wrong somehow but then the rear transmission mount wouldn't fit.  The correct radiator to fan clearance in the 1940 Manufacturing Info Book (pg 13-B-1) is 1/2 to 1 inch with 3/4 inch preferred.  That is what locates the core support which has plenty of adjustment at the frame bracket.  Then the fenders bolt to that which have big holes in them to allow for slop.  When doing a core that is not quite as wide as the stock, it should be aligned with the back so this is all correct. You really can't see much of the front anyway so it does not show then that the core is narrow.

[Steve Passmore]

I agree with all responses.   You don't say if it's the incorrect radiator or the correct radiator but with the incorrect number of cores?  Another line of cores is not going to take up another 1"
Fan must be close to pull air through. Too far back and it will only recirculate engine bay air.
These cars are always very tight getting the fan belts on.

[autoluke]

Steve

After reading your post, thought that I would mention a problem with a leak in the area you had described.
Had water in the pan, and chased it for weeks before discovering a crack in that area.. finally replaced the entire engine with a good one.

[Paul Phillips]

Ray
I would agree about all the above suggesting the fan does indeed sit close to the radiator core.  To ease your thoughts about a wrong chassis, as long as your chassis is unmodified, there is little chance the engine is in the wrong place.

The LaSalle 5027 is built on a 123" wheelbase chassis.  No commercial chassis was available in that size, only in 138" or 141" wheelbases.

The distance from the front wheel centerline to the front of the frame ears is the same on all 1940 chassis, as is the width of the frame at front and the width at the front wheels.  That would suggest that the geometry of the engine mounts and core support mounts are the same, regardless of chassis.  Where things start to change is the location of the front body mounting holes in the frame and the length of the X bracing in the mid section, depending on model.  Other than the 75 & 90 series Cadillacs, the distance from the front spring bolts to rear axle centerline is the same.

There are numerous combinations of fan blades, pulleys, hubs, brackets, belts, etc. in the parts book for the 38-48 flathead V-8's.  Other than an absolute authenticity difference, as long as the fan blade is close to the radiator core, as suggested by other respondents, it should work correctly.

The differences I note include: fan pulley appears to be identical for 39-48, with the exception of the 2-piece pulley used on the 38-40 90 series (V-16) cars.  The fan hub is the same for most engines from 39-48.  There was a different hub for the 90 series cars above, and for a couple of Cadillac V-8 models in 39.  I am not clear on what is really different.  There also were different part #'s for the fan shaft/bearing/bracket, indicating minor variations, but I am not clear what the differences are.  Fan belts are different (about 3" shorter) for the 40 LaSalle cars, indicating the fan shaft must sit lower than in the 40 Cadillacs.  Fan blade part #'s also vary a bit over the range, with one part # used thru 41 for the standard cars and a different one used 42 on.  There was a different fan blade for the 67 and 75 series, to provide increased cooling.  Again, the other differences are not clear, and may just be manufacturing evolution.

I hope this will help relieve your mind about your car's components!

Paul

[grasshopper537]

Thanks to all for replies.

Paul, great information. Really appreciate it. Today we learned more. Bare with me on the forum thing. I am new at this.

The current radiator in the car is not the proper radiator, and had only 3 tubes to accomodate the lack of space for the fan. I purchased this car restored. Made a few upgrades this winter that were needed, and added a 6 bladed fan to the equation to help with overheat issues. This in turn revealed that the radiator was not correct and missing a tube. Hence I am losing 40% of my cooling power. Also was fortunate to pick up the correct radiator for the car as well this winter. Refurbished it to my standards, and in the process of hoping to install it....I started taking measurements first. The correct radiator is too thick, and will hit the fan. That's why the current radiator has a tube missing, and smaller in size. So, that is what started the whole issue, either fan hub, or motor too far forward.

Today, I drove to a wonderful couple about an hours drive away from me. They were kind enough to let me take a lot of measurements, although it was off of a 52 model versus my 50 model and also a sedan model. Bottom line....my motor is 3.5" too far forward. I have all kinds of room behind the motor. I am also waiting on some measurements from another LaSalle owner with his 50 model to confirm as well. He was right next to me at the MI regional CLC event last fall. So, hence the issue with realizing that the restore went with a narrower cored radiator. I can't answer why it is this way yet. But, I'm learning as I see more and get to know the car more. This season I will go with the 6 bladed fan and see what the improvement is there. However, knowing radiators like I do since I worked in a radiator shop for over 8 years as a young man, fixed more radiators than I care to admit to, and have built all of my own brass radiators for my antique race cars.....it will probably be necessary to replace next winter with the correct radiator to pick up that extra cooling. I really only need to move things back about 1.25" to have room for the correct radiator.

On the upside, Lester LaSalle has a new/old better flywheel as of this winter. Much safer. That was this winter's project....and happy with how that fix went. Not as easy at 82 years of age, but thank goodness for my strong son and willing best friend for assistance where muscle was needed to put things back together. Your information is invaluable as always and very much appreciated to keep me pointed in the right directions and if for no other reason to rule out things. I will keep you posted just for your information, as I know you can use the info in your circles with your beautiful car. Hope to see you at Nationals.

Ray

[Brad Ipsen CLC #737]

Many changes would be required to have the motor in the wrong location.  The transmission mount would have to be moved.  The drive shaft length would change.  The shift linkage would have to be changed.  At least one throttle arm would have to be changed.  Clutch linkage would have to be changed and if not being redone the exhaust system would be changed.  All of this is highly unlikely. 

[tturley]

I restored my 1940 5019 a couple years ago. One of the issues that it had was the tendency to run hot on a summer day and had difficulty starting after a long run.
After fighting that for a year, had radiator checked, exhaust wrapped, motor flushed and etc I decided to take drastic measures.
My Lasalle is a beautiful car and I have won several awards at local shows but it is not a concourse car so authenticity is not and issue for me.
I took out the stock radiator and repacked with a new aluminum one that I had built. Painted it black and to the untrained eye it looks right. It Is only about half as thick as the original but disepates heat much better.
The next issue was that the fan was a long way from the radiator so I installed a five blade fan and a spacer to move it to about 3/4 inch away.
Now I can drive the car in any heat and it is not a problem, temp gauge never reaches half way.

Again, this setup is far from authentic but I am now able to use the car all I want.

Maybe when your car was restored the same thing was done.
I could not go back to the original radiator now because the fan is a couple inches to far forward

[grasshopper537]

To Brad....The difficult we do immediately.....the impossible just takes a little longer. LOL

No worries....the numbers don't lie on the tape measure. I do realize the extent of moving things into proper position.

To Tom....very nice fix on your end, and worth considering if I can get past the "authenticity" part of the car.

Thanks to all.

[Paul Tesone]

Grasshopper- going through the same overheating issues . Did you ever resolve yours ?? Paul Tesone CLC # 6876

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Grass hopper hopped away in Jan.