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Need mechanic in Maine

Started by cadillac73, May 06, 2018, 05:00:57 PM

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cadillac73

Hello all. I'm desperate.  Can any of you recommend a mechanic in Maine, hopefully somewhere in the Augusta area, that can do the timing on my '73 Coupe (472)? 

Please help!

Cat Smith
Pittston Maine
Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

Dan LeBlanc

Do you just need to have it set or do you need to replace the timing chain and gears?

I was just through there last Saturday on my way home from Boston (overnighted in Bath Friday night and came up through the back roads from Bath to I95 north).  If it was just a simple adjustment, had I known I would've stopped in and done it for you.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Cape Cod Fleetwood

I have a friend in Monmouth Maine who knows a lot of "old timers". Let me reach out to him and get back to you ASAP.

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

cadillac73

Dan...I wish it was just a simple adjustment.  This is a project I have been working on since last July when she jumped a tooth.  With the help of my (mechanic) boyfriend, I replaced timing gears and chain and we cannot get the damn thing to start.  Have set the gears at 6 and 12, rotor pointing at #4, no-go. Tried pointing at #1, no-go, tried switching gears to 12 and 12, etc etc.  Long story short, we've tried every combination.  If you search my posts, you'll see I reached out for advice when we first started.  We are at our wit's (and knowledge's) end and I just need someone who really knows what the hell they're doing with these engines to take over and fix the damn thing before we really screw something up.

Laurie...I would be eternally grateful for a referral. 

Thank you both for responding.  Car show season is coming up fast and I am starting to panic!!

Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: cadillac73 on May 08, 2018, 10:42:16 AM
Laurie...I would be eternally grateful for a referral. 

Already struck out with 2, waiting to hear back from 2 more...

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Here you go Cat:

Bartlett's Garage, ask for Tony or Jerry
RT 17, 392 Augusta Road, Washington, ME
(207) 845-2452

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

cadillac73

Laurie, thank you so much!!!  I will call them today.
Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: cadillac73 on May 09, 2018, 04:15:32 PM
Laurie, thank you so much!!!  I will call them today.

Let us know what happens! Best of luck to you and your Caddy!

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

PiscataquisCadillac

Cat-  Did we meet in the Shaw's parking lot in Dover-Foxcroft? I was with my brother-in-law.

I am bringing my '71 Eldorado to a mechanic tomorrow in Dover.  I will let you know how it goes.

cadillac73

Nope...wasn't me...

The garage that has had my car since MAY has not been able to get it started. 

I don't know what else to do besides try someone else, but Dover is pretty far for me...at least 3 hours away. 
Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

35-709

That sounds pretty ridiculous to me! 
Do they have/did you give them a '73 Cadillac Shop Manual?  Lots of Chevrolet/Ford oriented mechanics have real problems with Cadillac engines and systems (the stories I could tell) and sometimes are so know-it-all-stubborn they won't read a shop manual.  Been there/experienced that and is why, like Scot Minesinger, I learned long ago how to do most of my own work.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

cadillac73

Yup, I gave them my shop manual.

I'm going to give them another week.

As far as I know, all they've done so far is: re-time it to #4 at TDC, and put new wires and plugs on it.  I asked them today to do a compression check, since they've said they still can't get it to start.  They said it keeps "coughing back" whatever that means.

Very frustrating and upsetting...summer is slipping by quickly.
Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

savemy67

Hello Cat,

Coughing back can mean that valves are open when they should be closed - indicating that the timing gears/chain are not installed properly.  It could also mean that the distributor is not correctly installed, and it is trying to fire when the valves are not in the proper open or closed position.

If I recall correctly, the crank sprocket timing mark should be at 12 o'clock, and the cam sprocket timing mark should be at 6 o'clock.  This should position the number 1 piston at top dead center.  The distributor rotor should be pointing at the wire in the distributor cap for cylinder number 1.  On the 472 engines, the number 1 cylinder is the front-most cylinder on the passenger side of the vehicle.

If a mechanic is trying to use top dead center on cylinder number 4, then the distributor may have to be removed and rotated 180 degrees.  Sine the gear that turns the distributor is helical cut, the rotor has to be turned a few degrees counterclockwise so when the distributor gear meshes with the cam gear that drives the distributor, the rotor will align with the correct distributor cap position.

I haven't worked on a 472/500 in more than thirty years, so I may be incorrect on the above.  Hopefully some of the 472/500 guys will chime in.  As G. Newcombe implies, this is pretty basic stuff for a competent mechanic - no computer required.  Assuming no other components of the fuel and ignition systems are bad, and assuming the engine has compression, this should take about an hour to resolve.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

35-709

#13
Forget #4, it will work but do it as the book says --- use #1 and follow the book, you're just throwing in more to think about using #4.  As Chris Winter noted, coughing back/spitting back/backfiring all are saying the same thing --- the timing is way off, it wants to run.  I can only reiterate what Chris has said --- crank mark at 12 o'clock, cam gear mark at 6 o'clock, timing mark at TDC with #1 at TDC on the compression stroke.  The shop manual shows a picture of where #1 plug wire should be in the dist. cap if the distributor has been reinstalled in the factory position.  Keep it simple, do it by the book --- also make sure the plug wires are hooked up in the correct firing order starting with #1.  Assuming the crank and cam marks are in the correct locations, this is NOT rocket science.

Edit:  ;D  You could have bought any one of several of us a roundtrip airline ticket and had the car on the road a long time ago!   ;D   
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Scot Minesinger

Agree with 35-709, that is crazy. (since May!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

#1, are you 100% positive that in replacing the chain the cam did not get rotated with respect to crank?  If yes, then awesome.  If it did, wow! have not had to figure out that problem yet and this is an interference engine!

#2, presume you are good on item #1 and crank and cam did not rotate with respect to each other during timing chain replacement.  Worst case, there are sixteen teeth in the distributor, rotate it (uninstall then re-install) and when it starts and you can see timing mark you are good.  Worst case it will take 16 tries.  I did this once on a 1968, now it runs great!

BTW I did the 6/12 thing, cylinder # 4 and I was only off one tooth, switched it one tooth and good to go.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Bobby B

I agree that this is a Pretty simple problem. Nothing crashed when you switched the gears around? 9 out of 10 no-starts after rebuilds/top end work are due to the distributor being installed 180 degrees out. 30-40 engine builds later and I've made the mistake myself. Happens to us all. That's a shame you lost the use of the car for a few hours worth of troubleshooting. Good Luck!
                                               Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

cadillac73

Quote from: 35-709 on July 25, 2018, 07:31:18 PM

Edit:  ;D  You could have bought any one of several of us a roundtrip airline ticket and had the car on the road a long time ago!   ;D   

Hey, if someone wants a vacation in Maine, let me know!  I am actually seriously considering flying my old mechanic from Florida up here...he did all the work on that car from 1988 to 2009.
Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

cadillac73

Here's a question for you guys...How would I know NOW, looking at it, if the cam got rotated with respect to crank?  Because I honestly don't know if this might have happened.  That's what I'm kinda freaking out about...I know this is an interference engine.  Had to replace valves several years ago when I shredded the old nylon teeth off the gear.  Don't wanna have to do that again.


Quote from: Scot Minesinger on July 25, 2018, 07:38:21 PM

#1, are you 100% positive that in replacing the chain the cam did not get rotated with respect to crank?  If yes, then awesome.  If it did, wow! have not had to figure out that problem yet and this is an interference engine!

Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

35-709

Cam rotated ---
#1.  You can take some comfort in the fact that while it could be done, it would take a fair amount of effort to do so --- assuming the valve train assemblies were all still in place when the chain was replaced.
#2.  Since it is apparent that several/many attempts have been made to start the car, you would have run into the interference issue right off the bat.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

savemy67

Hello Cat,

If you can see the timing marks on the sprockets, rotate the engine and align the marks (6 and 12 o'clock).  Remove the passenger side valve cover.  Both valves for cylinder number 1 should be fully closed.  Rotate the crank by hand through 2 revolutions and observe the valves.  Near the end of the first revolution, the exhaust valve should be open.  During the next rev the exhaust should close and the intake valve should open.  At the end of the second rev, the valves should be closed and the timing marks should be aligned at 6 and 12.

If you cannot see the timing marks because the front cover is installed, set the timing mark on the crank damper to TDC and observe the valves through two revs of the crank.  If things don't line up, the cam sprocket is probably not aligned with the crank.  Is your camshaft original?  Is there a dowel on the front of the cam (which gets inserted into a hole in the cam sprocket)?

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop