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Sticker Shock

Started by Bill Hedge CLC 14424, May 09, 2018, 11:37:14 PM

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Bill Hedge CLC 14424

Sticker Shock - the Discovery Chanel tv car show that is.  The concept is that guests submit their car for appraisal by an expert appraiser.  On the show tonight was Tm Pawl with his 1973 Eldorado pace car -  not a replica.  After nit picking  Tim's car Tim"s car was appraised for less than 1/2 Tim's estimated value of $40,000.00.   

Scot Minesinger

I did not see the show, are you saying Tim valued it at 40k and the show only 20k, or was it the show appraised it at 40k, and Tim thinks 80k is the real value?

There are two general types of real high end collectors in my experience, the "Preservationist" that never drives the car except maybe 150 miles a year and they do not consume the resource.  And the buy a super nice car and take really good care of it, but nonetheless does drive it and essentially consume it.  An example of a high end car that is consumed is that it is a # 1 car with 20k miles on it and 10 years later it has 40k miles on it and it is a #2 or strong # 3 car, still highly saleable and resembling a #1 car to most. 

Those car shows on TV are for entertainment, not really factual, so it is what someone will pay is the real value.  I'm more of a consumer of nice cars rather than a preservationist.  Accordingly, a perfect #1 car would not be worth much more than a #2 car to me, because in a few years it would not be perfect as I drive it.  Whereas a preservationist would value a #1 car much higher than a #2 car.

You just never know.  I value sedans higher than coupes because it is so much easier to ride with 3 passengers in the sedan.  The rest of the world values the coupe more than the sedan.  Of course I like convertibles best and so does everyone else.

Back to the personal preference and this 1973 Eldorado, the buyer of this car is going to be a preservationist who also understands the unique low production of the Pace Car.  For me a great condition #2 Eldorado in a dark color with a not black interior is preferable over the white Pace car.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Dan LeBlanc

I read Bill's observation as Tim valued the car at $40k and the show people pegged it at less than half of that.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Barry M Wheeler #2189

I was watching American Pickers Sunday night and they "bought" an older Studebaker "pickup" in fifteen minutes or so. I know there are time constraints on TV shows but when have any of us bought a car that quickly? No mention was made that the car was now a chopped up item and worthless as an collector's item. Ugh!
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

davedeltadog

I saw the show last night and thought the appraisal was bit low, but the car had a lot of poor condition issues. There are many areas that had been poorly repainted, some of the interior wasn't original and there was some bad rust in rear fenders and the engine and trans were leaking. The owner only paid $8K for the car in the late 90's, I would not give him any more. The inside of the trunk lid had a bunch of noteworthy driver signatures from the Indy race that year. I would remove the lid and sell the car.

Bill Hedge CLC 14424

If I heard right, the appraisal was in the $13,000.00 range.  Although Tim's had some issues, I felt that the appraiser failed to give proper weight to the fact that the car was an original car - not a replica.

Greg Powers

In respect to all car values, we all know that a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay. I know of one of the members of this forum that wouldn't give you $ 10,000 for any of the 1971-1976 Eldorados. Not to say that they aren't worth more than that but if the value were determined by him as a purchaser, the value would be low. I think sometimes we know so much more about our cars than the general public that we see a much greater value in the car. This is not a judgement of Tim's car but look at the advertisements in the Self Starter and notice the outrageous prices some think their cars are worth. I wish them all luck because if they can get the high prices for their cars it is a good omen for all the rest of us who might want to sell a car in the future.
G.L. Powers>1954 Series 62 Sedan/1958 Fleetwood 60 Special-sold/1963 Series 62 Convertible-sold/1970 Fleetwood Brougham-sold/1994 Fleetwood Brougham/1971 Sedan Deville-sold/2000 Deville-sold/2001 DTS-sold/1976 Eldorado Convertible-sold/1983 Coupe Deville-sold/1990 Allante-sold/1990 and 1991 Brougham deElegance-sold/1992 Brougham-sold/Always looking!

Classic

News Flash!  There is nothing real about TV "reality" shows (such as those mentioned above and all others).  They are all fake.  They are created solely as TV entertainment for the gullible public.
Gene Menne
CLC #474

russ austin

A 64 Cadillac hearse was recently on the show, and it was appraised for 18 grand I think.  That is a good estimate at value for that car.
R.Austin

Steve Passmore

Quote from: Classic on May 11, 2018, 07:47:04 AM
News Flash!  There is nothing real about TV "reality" shows (such as those mentioned above and all others).  They are all fake.  They are created solely as TV entertainment for the gullible public.

I have been preaching this for years without success. I friend of mine thinks they are all gospel!  Just can't get through to him. :(
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

chrisntam

I just watched the episode and a few comments.

First, kudos to Tim for putting the car out there for a very public appraisal, seeing both the good and the bad.

Editing. After watching many episodes of "The Bachelor" (wifey (Tammy of chrisntam)makes me  ;) ), things on TV can be twisted in many different ways.  Outcome oriented editing - what do the producers want to present?

Condition of the car.  It clearly needs some work, surprised that the mileage is 116k on that car. 

Surprised at the amount of oil leakage.  New gaskets and a weekend or two would address that.

Surprised at the condition of the rear quarter panel.  Given the (reportedly) non-matching paint, why not repair it?

Trunk pull down.  The producers made a big deal about this, but when cars are judged (right or wrong), things should work as designed.
 
Steering wheel, we all know wheels from cars of that era crack and come apart.

Interior, of course its faded, it's a convertible with use.

I would have liked to look under the hood, they didn't even show that.  Why not?  Similar condition as the undercarriage?

The appraiser looked pained and did say the low price was due to condition.

Tim was right, show me another one and I'd buy 'em all at that price.

Value: It's a '73 Eldo convertible, but an actual on track pace car.  Hagerty has it's average value at $19.6k.  Given the condition of Tim's car, the price would be lower, say around $12k to $14k, but what percentage does an on track pace car add?  50%? 75%?

So we'll start at $15k, add 50% to 75% for an on track car and come up with a range of $22.5k to $26.3K.

The signatures (to me) don't add value, but may for others.  Add in a motivated buyer (pace car collector) and it may fetch $30k.  Put it in an actual auction like Barrett Jackson or Mecum and I think the value could be much lower.

(No Reserve) Auction values show what buyers will pay.  Private sale value is determined between a willing seller and willing buyer.  Seller may want to hold out for more money, buyer may pay more to get to the seller's price.

That's my review.

Again, Kudos to Tim for putting it out there for everyone to critique.  Kinda like posing nekkid and everyone has red laser pointers...

;)
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

D.Smith

#11
NADA  valuation is $38K for a Pace Car High Retail.   

But as stated condition is everything.

No way to look up what a track used car will add.   

Most of our cars have flaws.  Some because we just haven't gotten around to fixing them, or the flaw doesn't matter or bother them.    Sure things can be fixed.   But is there time before appearing on the show?   Doubtful for some.   

If everyone refused to show their car because it wasn't a 100 point car then we'd have few to see.

Sometimes it is good to get a fresh set of eyes and unbiased opinion so to see what needs to be done to bring our cars up a notch.     

As for price guides they are just guides.   I tend to ignore Hagerty valuations as they tend to be too high in many cases.   They are insurance values after all.   They need to cover  themselves to fix your car if hit remember.  As we know, repairs aren't cheap.      NADA seems to be more accurate in most cases.    But all it takes is for one rare car to sell for stupid money above the last one sold and that throws off the whole chart.   The fewer of that model change hands and infrequency can make their chart unreliable too.     There was a mint condition pace car at Hershey two years ago in the car coral.   It was perfect.    I wish I knew how much it sold for.    That may have been the car that set the $38,750 figure.

Scot Minesinger

Posters thanks for adding insight and info to the car.

After reading them, first it is awesome that Tim put his car out there.  If people were unwilling to show a non-perfect car, there would be few to see.

Condition is everything on any car, and a 116k miles rusted Cadillac that needs much attention is not going to be worth a whole lot.  20k seemed generous after reading the posts.

Race heritage, signatures on the trunk and etc., add nothing for me.  Maybe they do for others.  In general the majority of the car collector population seeking the 4ok and under fun classic to drive do not value this type of stuff either.  The million dollar collector may care if Marylin Monroe owned the car or not.

Most owners, me included, over value their car, house and etc. when it comes to selling it, and the reverse when buying - that is human nature.

Back to the show - it would be boring if someone brought a car on the show and the owner and appraiser agreed on everything and it was a perfect car.  Thanks again to Tim for showing it.

Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty