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oil leak, coolant leak, belts..<sigh>

Started by Cape Cod Fleetwood, May 30, 2018, 01:37:45 AM

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Cape Cod Fleetwood

My friend Charlie warned me, "an old car will leak or break just being parked..."

After a suk day of work I needed Ark Therapy. Opened the lair, looked under him and was dismayed to see a very small spot of coolant almost directly under the pax side tank. Nothing visible from the cap down except a bit of dampness at the very bottom where the rad sits. I haven't looked at the car since I had it out last Wednesday night, plenty of time for more evidence to have dried up. Opened the cap, down about an inch, topped it off. He's going for new tires on Friday, I'll drive it a bit and look again as soon as we get home. If I need to replace the radiator, what's a good one to use? The AC is not working, I'm not entering the car in any Concour events or driving it cross country.

Then I noticed a small oil drip on the ground, argh. Looked to be at the forward part of the oil pan, crawled under the car, oil pan is dry, oil drips on the beam. The camshaft (crankshaft?) pulley has oil evidence around it but it always has. Noticed the valve cover on the drivers side had oil pooled on it towards the rear. Hmm... Got out my sockets and tried the tension on the bolts that weren't leaking on the other side. They were all cranked down. Tried the 3 bolts where the oil was seen, each took at least 2 turns, maybe that was it? Oil level was normal.

I want to replace all the belts. Went to the shop manual for specs, all I got was tensioning lbs. Went to the AC Delco site, nothing. How do I find out what belts I need? 2 over the AC obviously 1 for power steering, 1 at the alternator, and I think there's a 4th, I'm a girl... The top 2 belts on the AC "wobble", the alternator should have got a new belt when it was replaced, but the 'new' belt that came with the car was as cracked as the one already being used. And I noticed the pulley at the bottom, (crankshaft or camshaft? had a wobble to it.  Maybe its just a weak belt.

Money is starting to become an issue as I want to paint the car this winter, the roof waits for a powerball win. Hopefully Autozone or NAPA parts will be recommended... thanks guys.

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

#1
Hi Laurie:

For belts:  Gates
For Radiators:  Harrison, 4 row (if you can find them)
These are expensive but they are the best -- they were OEM.

Be careful when tightening the valve covers as they
are torqued to "inch pounds" -- over doing that will
warp the covers and increase the drips.  When it gets
to that point, replace the gaskets

As far as the antifreeze leak, it could be an
incorrectly sized hose, wrong clamp or other issue.

Let us know if you need more help.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

#2
Yep. Been there with both the cars and airplane. Lousy day and all I want to do is unwind. Then..........
Just last week I want to take three 70 out and gad a blown fuseable link. Back in the hanger it went.

Now on to your problem.
1st thing is to take a deep breath.
2nd is check your radiator cap, even if it is new. I had a bad new cap. Go to Autozone or similar and get a radiator testing kit. It has an attachment to check the cap. Then go ahead and pressurize the radiator while you have the kit. See what happens. Check all hose clamps, including the heater hoses. When everything is checked then see if it holds pressure. If you do indeed see coolant oozing from the radiator then my suggestion would be to pull it and take it to a radiator shop. They shouldn't charge much to check it to seen if it is repairable. Also start soaking the trans lines today because they will be frozen in place.
As far as the leaks go, 1st thing is to clean the engine well and then start checking for leaks when it is clean. Oil/coolant will migrate everywhere so don't start tightening things until you know where the leaks are. Often you can tighten something that isn't yet leaking and your efforts will cause it to leak.
I was getting coolant on my crossmember that mixed with oil which led me to think I had a front seal leaking but it was actually coolant blown back by the fan. There is almost 50 years worth of dirt in little places in the engine compartment that you can't see. Mixing with coolant will make you think it is oil.
Last step, take another deep breath.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

D.Yaros

For Laurie's info, in the event she may not be aware, AutoZone and other auto parts retailers loan/rent the radiator pressurization kit.  No need to buy it.  It is expensive!
Dave Yaros
CLC #25195
55 Coupe de Ville
92 Allante
62 Olds  

You will find me on the web @:
http://GDYNets.atwebpages.com  -Dave's Den
http://graylady.atwebpages.com -'55 CDV site
http://www.freewebs.com/jeandaveyaros  -Saved 62 (Oldsmobile) Web Site
The home of Car Collector Chronicles.  A  monthly GDYNets newsletter focusing on classic car collecting.
http://www.scribd.com/D_Yaros/

Dan LeBlanc

Your good news for the day is that RockAuto is showing Raybestos 5800R rotor and hub assemblies in stock now.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Awww, you guys are the best!

I'm over my initial heartbreak... Talked to my friend Charlie (Mr. 33 cars) and he told me I need to get used to this as he previously warned me. "buy a bag of kitty litter", etc. Old cars are like old people and will have regular physical issues when you least expect it, you'll always be fixing something, etc.

And its best if I leave the wrench turning to Scott, I'm too emotional about the car and over analyze everything.

Mike thanks for the info on parts, when I'm rich I'll buy those names. Right now I'm Little Miss Autozone!

Jeff you'd make a great mid-wife, XO! Breathing is something I forget to do. God Bless

Dave you rock, free is my favorite word!

Dan what great news, that means the cheaper (by $25 each!) Autozone rotors can't be far behind.

I've noticed Autozone changed the listing from "not in stock" to "ship to home", though they keep moving the goal post backwards by a week for delivery. Looks like their supplier is about to come back on line. The good news is I'm not critical for rotors with The Ark, just "will need them soon", and inner/outer bearings and seals. Pads are already in my parts box. My daily driver needs front pads and rotors NOW, I had the rears done 2 weeks ago.

Charlie suggested some of the 'wobble' I see in the belts could be the pulley's needing to be tightened, what say you all? I'm still changing all the belts, Autozone. For the price of 1 OPGI belt I get all 3 from Autozone.

The daily driver gets all the top end parts, it has to, it has to work or I don't and I'm homeless. The Ark will be fine with the Autozone parts when applicable. Its going to drive 2k miles a year in perfect weather, it will never be in a "judge" show, it will be fine with a more economical fix when appropriate. That $359 "period correct" battery and the $816 "period correct" tires taught me a le$$on I won't forget. BTW, the DiamondBacks are due tomorrow, being shipped right to Cape Tire, and being installed Friday morning. The Cokers go back to Summit via UPS (they already sent me labels) immediately after we leave Cape Tire.

Now to bed, morning comes early and I need to work to support all this happiness.  ;)

THANKS GUYS!  :-*
\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

#6
Quote:

"Charlie suggested some of the 'wobble' I see in the belts could be the pulley's needing to be tightened, what say you all? I'm still changing all the belts, Autozone. For the price of 1 OPGI belt I get all 3 from Autozone."

If it is truly loose pulleys then there are issues that
need to be addressed beyond just tightening the
pulleys. 

For example:
1) Water pump pulley wobble indicates that the water
pump bearing seal is going bad.  If so, it will start to
fail and leak. The pump would need to be replaced.
2) Crankshaft pulley -- a wobble here could indicate
an issue with the harmonic balancer, replacement
would be needed.

It would be a good idea when you have the belts
replaced to have your mechanic take a good look at
this to determine what the real issues are.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Hey Mike!
Over the power steering pulley it looks more like the belts are 'wandering' more than the pulley wobbling.

..such technical terms...

The water pump pulley is fine, the water pump was replaced recently Scott said.
Its the crankshaft pulley that seems to wobble. Assuming replacing the harmonic balancer requires removing the
front of the engine?

\m/
Laurie?
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

Removal of that crankshaft pulley requires use
of a "puller".  The problem is having enough room
to get at the pulley between it and the radiator or
whatever else might be in the way. 

Best to have Scott look at it - there are several
ways to check this out to see if it's really bad
before needing to go through this.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: Mike Josephic  CLC #3877 on May 30, 2018, 10:59:24 PM
Removal of that crankshaft pulley requires use
of a "puller".  The problem is having enough room
to get at the pulley between it and the radiator or
whatever else might be in the way. 

Best to have Scott look at it - there are several
ways to check this out to see if it's really bad
before needing to go through this.

Mike

And its possible the pulley got "bent" if some dope used it as a lever with a crow bar to tighten the alternation belt?

This is all "Scott Stuff"... he's the Crew Chief. And he's on FB now, I should harass him... ;)

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Scot Minesinger

The crank shaft pulley on a 1970 Cadillac (and this is true for 1965 thru 1976 plus maybe more years) does not require a puller to remove it.  It is bolted on.  If the belt is wobbling it is usually due to the power steering pump pulley being bent because that does require a special puller and is easily bent if done wrong.  This pulley makes a difference in smoothing out the idle too.  look for a good used one if it is bent.  This is a dual groove.

The oil leak is more then likely the rear main seal or the valve covers.  Tightening the valve cover bolts never works, just replace the gaskets - an easy job provided you fix the covers first.

An oil - OK you can deal with that, probably not a deal killer for 2018.  A coolant leak - better get that fixed.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

gkhashem

For the coolant, I think you car does not have an overflow tank. If not then you do not top off the coolant to top. It should be in my experience when cool just above the top of the openings inside the radiator.

Any more than that it will over flow, best to let it find it's equilibrium and then watch it to see if it settles at it's level.

Why I say overflow maybe what you are seeing for coolant is the overflow from you keep getting from topping it off. Maybe??
1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1960 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr #72)
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr Crown #959)*
1992 Oldsmobile 98 (OCA 1st)
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*CLC Past President's Preservation

Past Cadillacs
1959 Coupe Deville
1966 Coupe Deville (Sr #861)*
1991 Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)

klinebau

Quote from: gkhashem on June 01, 2018, 12:41:21 PM
For the coolant, I think you car does not have an overflow tank. If not then you do not top off the coolant to top. It should be in my experience when cool just above the top of the openings inside the radiator.

Any more than that it will over flow, best to let it find it's equilibrium and then watch it to see if it settles at it's level.

Why I say overflow maybe what you are seeing for coolant is the overflow from you keep getting from topping it off. Maybe??

1970 has an overflow tank.  Make sure the radiator cap holds pressure and the overflow hose is not compromised.  I just discovered my overflow hose is rotten and leaked coolant.  Lucky I noticed and that it is a simple fix.
1970 Cadillac Deville Convertible
Detroit, MI

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

If you are getting an oil leak at the back of the engine also check the oil sending unit. Top back center of the engine just behind the intake manifold. It goes in at a slight angle. Look at it and if wet then replace. Takes a special socket.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

Cape Cod Fleetwood

I appreciate you guys so much and I'm taking notes!

Drove the car a lot today, then it rained and it got wet  >:(
LOVE these new Diamond Back radial tires, they were installed today, its a new car.
Video on my FB page.
Still saw evidence of oil on top of the drivers side valve cover but not as much.
Guess I need to tighten a wee bit more, then probably change the gaskets if that
fails, that's something I can do. What's your favorite gasket? And Mike Josephic please,
no 24kt gaskets, LOL!
Autozone belts will be in Monday, we have an appointment with crew chief Scott Tuesday at
9am, his only available time before the Heritage show on Saturday, I canx a doctor's appointment
I really needed to keep to make the car appointment. Priorities, et al. He'll check the radiator leak,
the pulley's and change the belts.
And in the rain today I realized how bad those front brakes are, rotors will be ordered tonight. I have
Duralast pads in stock, got bearings and seals from Autozone today.

I am so stressed with work, its insane, so busy, not enough help. When I want to cry I just go out The
Ark's lair and sit behind the wheel. Then everything is all better...

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

OK Laurie -- I was about to recommend 24kt
gold plated gaskets, but I won't.

Glad the Diamondbacks worked for you.  I
saw your pics on Facebook -- the tires look great!

One recommendation -- don't tighten the valve
covers any more.  They warp very easily and if
they do that, Scott will need to repair them before
installing new gaskets.  As far as gaskets, whatever
he recommends I'm sure will be OK.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

cadillacmike68

#16
I guess you got the belts on order already.

Look at page 6-7 Engine Cooling in your shop manual for the belt lengths, but there is an error with the Fan-Alt belt. It's NOT 36" but rather 49.5 or 50.0"

The PS belts should be 48" ACDELCO 15480. If you ever get the climate control repaired, its a 59.5" belt ACDELCO 15595. The Fan-Alt belt is a 50 or 49.5" AC 15500 or 15495. On these ACDelco belts the 15 is the profile and the last 3 are the length. Napa and others use a 7 prefix so 7495 for a 49.5"  Fan-Alt belt.

It would bet money that the PS pulleys are bent They can be straightened if they are not too bad.

Radiator was 3 core factory, not 4. A 4 core might give you NO fan blade clearance. If your tanks are good, you can get them re-cored. Modern coer technology makes for slightly better cooling.

The radiator cap is an RC-27. Cap and belts can be gotten from many sources including amazon.

You're going to find that the 1968-1971 Cadillac Rotors are DIFFICULT to get. I have ONE here as a spare. It's for sale. The 1972-76 (or later) rotors are Much less expensive and only require a Little work to make them fit on the 1968-71 cars. I had it done and I have 1970 Steering knuckles on the 1968, so I KNOW they will work on your car. I can let you know how, or can sell you the one 1968-71 rotor I have here. It's still in the box.

Good luck with it.

I took the Sky Cruiser out to a local cruise in Friday evening. Hotter than hell, I sweated my a$$ off just cleaning up the chrome and whitewalls. The car ran very nicely. Just changed the oil a week ago at 1,000 mi after overhaul and its doing nicely.

Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: Mike Josephic  CLC #3877 on June 01, 2018, 11:41:16 PM
OK Laurie -- I was about to recommend 24kt
gold plated gaskets, but I won't.

Glad the Diamondbacks worked for you.  I
saw your pics on Facebook -- the tires look great!

One recommendation -- don't tighten the valve
covers any more.  They warp very easily and if
they do that, Scott will need to repair them before
installing new gaskets.  As far as gaskets, whatever
he recommends I'm sure will be OK.

Mike

Oh those tires... sex on wheels....

I have to tinker with the valve cover again, to rule out the
bolts backing out. I over analyze....

\m/
Laurie!
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Cape Cod Fleetwood

#18
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on June 02, 2018, 12:41:59 AM
I guess you got the belts on order already.

Look at page 6-7 Engine Cooling in your shop manual for the belt lengths, but there is an error with the Fan-Alt belt. It's NOT 36" but rather 49.5 or 50.0"

The PS belts should be 48" ACDELCO 15480. If you ever get the climate control repaired, its a 59.5" belt ACDELCO 15595. The Fan-Alt belt is a 50 or 49.5" AC 15500 or 15495. On these ACDelco belts the 15 is the profile and the last 3 are the length. Napa and others use a 7 prefix so 7495 for a 49.5"  Fan-Alt belt.

It would bet money that the PS pulleys are bent They can be straightened if they are not too bad.

Radiator was 3 core factory, not 4. A 4 core might give you NO fan blade clearance. If your tanks are good, you can get them re-cored. Modern coer technology makes for slightly better cooling.

The radiator cap is an RC-27. Cap and belts can be gotten from many sources including amazon.

You're going to find that the 1968-1971 Cadillac Rotors are DIFFICULT to get. I have ONE here as a spare. It's for sale. The 1972-76 (or later) rotors are Much less expensive and only require a Little work to make them fit on the 1968-71 cars. I had it done and I have 1970 Steering knuckles on the 1968, so I KNOW they will work on your car. I can let you know how, or can sell you the one 1968-71 rotor I have here. It's still in the box.

Good luck with it.

I took the Sky Cruiser out to a local cruise in Friday evening. Hotter than hell, I sweated my a$$ off just cleaning up the chrome and whitewalls. The car ran very nicely. Just changed the oil a week ago at 1,000 mi after overhaul and its doing nicely.

Glad you got the car out!

I was told there are 3 big companies that make fan belts, Gates, Bando and Pix. They just stamp whatever name you want on them when they're not printing their own logo. Motorcraft, Autozone, Pep Boys, O'Reily, NAPA, the manufacturers here, buy their belts from them. Its like buying milk at Market Basket, Market Basket doesn't own a dairy business, they buy from Hood and its repackaged. 

The alternator belt https://www.autozone.com/cooling-heating-and-climate-control/belt/duralast-v-belt-belt/304170_11242_8548?fromString=search&make=&model=&year=

The PS belts (2) https://www.autozone.com/cooling-heating-and-climate-control/belt/duralast-v-belt-belt/303552_0_8563_5281?fromString=search&make=&model=&year=

Radiator cap was brand new https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-12r7s

If the radiator is hosed, boom, 3 row, $100 https://www.autozone.com/cooling-heating-and-climate-control/radiator/duralast-radiator/6179_344244_0 Same chinese company that makes the $400 radiator...

RockAuto had rotors, for about 20 minutes. Autozone shows availability in a week on their website, local stores show no availability. I've emailed Autozone's website for the skinny. No one in America, Canada or Mexico is making rotors for aftermarket, they're all made in China. They just box/stamp them as Raybestos or NAPA before they ship to the States. Ergo, they're all junk. So I'll just buy the cheaper junk, its the same product. Hang on to your rotor! They'll start making these again eventually.

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

cadillacmike68

#19
Laurie,

You still have the compressor mounted? If so I'd get a pair of 48" belts 15480 and keep them in the trunk in case the pulley bearing seizes up on you.


I would have spent the extra $4 and gotten a proper RC-27 cap:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-rc27

I hate those stant style caps.

On rotors:

Yep, 1968-71 rotors are pretty much nonexistent.  If you really want them, like I said I have one Centric one. You would only have to fine one (might still be impossible) If you want to use the 1972-76-whatever, let me know and I'll tell you how to make them work. It's really easy.

Maybe we Do need those tariffs on chinese steel.....
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike