1959 transmission rebuild service?

[dgworks845]

    I live in Warwick, NY which is Orange county, I'm near Northern NJ and Eastern PA. I have my 59' finally finished and cant help notice my transmission is slipping from 3rd to 4th. I had it rebuilt by Eggler Transmission in White Sulfer springs, NY about 10 years ago after I supplied John with all new parts from USA Parts supply. I only have about 300 miles on the car since it's up and running. This was a 14 year restoration, My wife and I  opened our business around the same time I purchased the car so my time was taken up on both subjects....I understand Gold seal Trans in NJ closed up.
    Does anyone know where I can take the car who will be honest and upfront with me with knowledge on the Hydromatics while taking good care of the car not to scratch or damage the paint.
    Concerned, Dwayne Clark

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

I am by no means a transmission expert. Not even close. But if you have only put 300 miles on it in 10 years that is most likely your problem. I am sure others will chime in here but probably the best thing you could do is to just drive it. That should clean things up in there.
Jeff

[Bob Schuman]

Dwayne,
Are you familiar with how a properly shifting 1959 Hydramatic feels and sounds? The 3-4 shift is quite slow and so smooth, it  has almost no "feel", the drop in engine speed being the thing most noticeable to the driver. It just kind of "slides" from third to fourth. If your engine speed does not flare up during the 3-4 shift yours is probably shifting as it should.  Beyond that, you need someone familiar with the transmission to drive or ride in the car to tell if it is okay or not.

[59-in-pieces]

Dwayne,
Can't help with a referral - wrong side of the country, Calif.

But, although I am not a big fan of black - shows every scratch, swirl, and all the dust - your car is a stunner.
Take 2 Adda-boys out of petty cash, for 14 years well spent.

Have fun,
Steve B.

[dgworks845]

Thank you Steve B., Jeff I just got the car back together and running last year so that's why theres only 300 miles on it.
Bob, I pretty sure it's slipping I can hear the engine raise in rpm and I'm not going any faster, In fact it's only when I put my foot back in it and it drops back into third is when it grabs again. I can install a tachometer and tape it to my windshield for viewing. But I'm positive it's slipping...

Thanks for the responses,
Dwayne Clark

[INTMD8]

Have you tried to shorten the throttle valve linkage? (I believe that's what it's called)

[dgworks845]

Yes I did Jim thats the kick down rod I shortened it about 3/8” and noticed no change except it kicks the passing gear a little sooner, however thats a good point Im going to read up on that in the manual
Thank you for the response.

[novetti]

Take it for a good long drive so it warms up properly and the fluid circulates well enough at the right operational temperature.

Vintage auto transmissions are a bit temperamental after been out of service for periods of time. It might be some little speck of dirt that might flush out alone.

Would be good as the others recommented to drive a good example from the same vintage, it might just be normal behavior.

You won't cook the transmission or blow it up using it (if the fluid is there at the right levels). I would research more before doing anything.

[smatarese]

If you are willing to travel a little bit northeast, give Frank Jr a call at CPR. 845-454-5959. He’s in Poughkeepsie. Tell him Steve with the 60 Brougham refered you. He redid the drivetrain in mine and has been great to work with.

[Roger Zimmermann]

It is known that the steel seal at the oil pump cover is sometimes a tad too small, preventing the front unit coupling to work as intended. It could be your problem; unfortunately, the replace it, the transmission must go out.
If that seal is the wrong one, you should also notice, when warm, that the transmission is going from a still stand 1 to 3.

[dgworks845]

thank you all, let me back up a bit, I drove this car around for 2 years before taking it apart for restoration. The trans was fine, no issues. With 109k on it I decided to rebuild it when I should have just left it alone and changed the filter with a nice clean up. After getting the trans back from Eggler Trans. I noticed right away he did not do such a great job tanking the trans. I still had 1/8" to 1/4" in some areas of grime in which I parts washed off really well before applying my paint.
    So maybe there is a piece of dirt jammed in a journal. As a note,  I installed a factory tripower unit from an eldorado on this #'s matching 390 along with everything needed to change it over, including vacuum canister (outter carbs), TV rod, correct distributor, accel rod,  tv idle port, air cleaner, factory vacuum switch, etc.
     I'm thinking of reading up on the kick down rod a little more, I did notice it's also shifting a little hard from 1st to 2nd, cold or warm. I don't want to drive it anymore and take a chance of ruining this #'s matching trans.
     I'm using Napas ATF fluid in it, someone had told me to try 10 weight hydrolic fluid Has anyone heard of this?

   Thanks for all responses,
   Dwayne clark

[Bob Schuman]

Dwayne,
Reading Jim Moran's post above reminded me of something I forgot to mention before. On my brand new 1959 Pontiac (essentially same transmission as yours) I tried to improve shifting by adjusting the throttle pressure control rod (TV rod) exactly according to the 1959 Pontiac Shop Manual. That really messed up the shifting, made it very sloppy. After hours of trial and error, my final setting was six turns of the adjusting nuts, (the manual specified 2-1/2 turns)  which got it back to shifting as it should.
Based on that experience, I would try big changes in the TV rod adjustment, after noting where you started from, and see if that may help. It won't hurt, and you can always go back to where you started if it doesn't  help. And it doesn't cost anything.

[dgworks845]

Bob, Thats the best news I've heard so far, I really appreciate your knowledge on the issue at hand and yes, it is the same 400lbs. trans and I'm going to tinker with it this weekend. I'll let you know how I make out,

All the best, dwayne

[savemy67]

Hello Dwayne,

Your post mentions that the transmission was running fine before you had it rebuilt, and that you were not completely satisfied with the quality of the rebuild.  That is one issue.  The controlled coupling HydraMatic has more parts than either its predecessor or successor transmissions.  So perhaps the rebuilder was not as thorough as he needed to be.

There were two HydraMatics available in 59, the "C" and the "CA".  The CA was available for the limo's and commercial chassis cars.  The difference between the two is in the front pump, which probably does not manifest itself in your symptoms.  There were four rear axle ratios available - two of which apply to your coupe.  Do you know which axle you have?

If you know your axle ratio, you can use the shop manual to determine the shift points (in miles per hour) to help diagnose your symptoms.  There is also a diagnostic chart in the manual.

Your post mentions that you converted the carburetor setup to an Eldorado configuration.  Was this done before or after the transmission rebuild?  If before, then your former coupe configured carb configuration was probably adjusted properly.  If after, then you could have either an adjustment problem, a poor quality transmission rebuild, or both.

Since adjustment does not require the removal of the transmission, try that first - with the aid of a shop manual, and a tachometer if you can get one.  If no amount of adjustment seems to resolve the symptoms, use the diagnosis chart in the manual to see what needs to be examined.

Yes, the transmissions are heavy.  I have three of them in my garage now, but they are closer to 250 pounds than 400 pounds, but at my age, I don't count weight after 100 pounds, I get help!  Good luck and keep us posted.  Lot's of forum members have Cadillacs with the controlled coupling HydraMatic, and we would like to know all the issues with these transmissions.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

[dgworks845]

    Christopher,  your full of useful knowledge and I would like to thank you for it. The tripower was added during the rebuild of this car, I believe I have 331 or 321? gear ratio. the ol' man who rebuilt the trans said he use to assemble them at the factory, I'm not sure if that's true or not but his shop was like stepping back in time. I knew he had every tool possible for the job, I was sold on the old the greasy grimy floor and the smell of thousands of transmissions that John probably rebuilt in his days. He Smoked about 10 cigars a day, I'm not sure if he's even alive anymore, the phone # was disconnected. That's the problem with these old cars, the transmission guys have either past on or moved to Florida. I tore down & re-assembled the entire engine myself and did the entire drivetrain reassemble. Including the stainless exhaust.
      I was reading the manual last night at the symptoms page. I think I'm going to get a tach and drive the car around making notes of shift patterns at what speeds, then disconnect the tv rod all together and see what that does.
   I'll get back to the outcome very soon, I may have to lengthen the rod rather than shorten it. Just a hunch...

thank you all,
respectfully Dwayne

[Roger Zimmermann]

A word about the T/V rod, Dwayne: I overhauled a '59 or '60 transmission because the owner said that it does not go to the 4th. In fact, the T/V road was adjusted so short that it was like the driver used the quick down all the time. He blew also his engine: he was all the time driving at 75 - 80 MPH in third which is not very sound...

[dgworks845]

Wow, so I might be right about lengthening the rod which makes sense about not exactly reaching the full effect of 4th gear... Roger, You guys have the best Chocolate lol
  thanks for the info
  All the Best, dwayne