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Power steering sticking - 1952 cad fleetood

Started by papas52cad, July 16, 2018, 03:49:39 PM

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papas52cad

I have this issue where the steering wheel becomes hard to turn. It happens after the car has been driven a while..last Friday during an hour + drive at 65 mph,  outdoors temps was 85) even while navigating the curves in the road, the steering wheel stuck and turning was harder, mostly I have seen it as a momentary thing, steering sticks and then releases, a very strange sensation, where one moment it is fine, steering is easy then it stick, then releases, sticks again.
On the same drive home ( 80miles in total), outdoor temps dropped to 75, and the “sticking” was much less???

The fluid level is perfect, no leaks ( I replaced tank gaskets a few months back) added new power steering fluid.
I know I can still steer the car safely but it is annoying at best...
Could it be a high heat thing..engine at operating temps..( 200-220 when outside temp was 85 Deg- based on readout from after market gauge that came with car) affecting pump hoses, PS valves?
Anyone experienced similar issue?
The car has a 1960 - 390 motor with the 1960 hydro...Jetaway tranny.
Even driving straight ahead, I can feel this happening while navigating the steering wheel with slight movememts to keep it tracking.
Happened again today after returning from trip to gas up..outdoor temp...90+
Thx for any ideas, causes, solutions.
Peter
1952 Fleetwood

Dave Shepherd

You should get it up in the air, manually at the tires turn the wheel thru the full range, see if there is a point it binds.  Engine off.  Post back.

papas52cad

Thx Dave
Will have to ask shop to do this next time it’s there..
But as noted during short or local drives, have not had issue it seems to start occurring after driv8ng a while
Does t seem like a bind , could it be something with valves not working as they should?
1952 Fleetwood

Dave Shepherd

Yes, but you need to eliminate any possibility of mechanical binding first.

papas52cad

1952 Fleetwood

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

I'm going to go really simple here. How is the belt? I see you worked on it and I am sure the belt was tight. But they streatch. I am guilty of letting the belts loosen up a little too much.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

papas52cad

Hello Jeff
Thx for your reply.
The belt is only 1 year old.
What do you suggest for an easy test on belt tightness. Nine slip on the pulley, so I assume they are tight but I am open to any and all ideas...
A loose belt would be a nice and easy fix, I even have another new set from the last owner.
My shop usually checks these but hey anything is possible and could be overlooked.
And when I worked on this all I did was change the tank gaskets, nothing more.
Also just for curiosity, is normal power steering fluid ok to use...
I read somewhere that they used tranny fluid back in the day.
Thx again
Peter
1952 Fleetwood

D.Yaros

Quote from: papas52cad on July 17, 2018, 08:32:28 PM
What do you suggest for an easy test on belt tightness. Nine slip on the pulley, so I assume they are tight but I am open to any and all ideas...
Not sure what you are saying here?  The belt should  -NOT-  slip on the pulley. 

As for a test for tightness, generally:
1) Belt should not slip when the fan blade is turned by hand.
2)  With engine off you should be able to depress the belt approx. 1/2" by hand, but no more.
Dave Yaros
CLC #25195
55 Coupe de Ville
92 Allante
62 Olds  

You will find me on the web @:
http://GDYNets.atwebpages.com  -Dave's Den
http://graylady.atwebpages.com -'55 CDV site
http://www.freewebs.com/jeandaveyaros  -Saved 62 (Oldsmobile) Web Site
The home of Car Collector Chronicles.  A  monthly GDYNets newsletter focusing on classic car collecting.
http://www.scribd.com/D_Yaros/

Dave Shepherd

If that belt was an issue you would find poor steering assistance during parking or tight turns at low speeds, not intermediate maneuvering on the road.

papas52cad

Thank you all
The belt is not loose, I checked and 1/2” is the most that it deflects and no slipping at fan
Tonite in just a short 15 -20 minute drive, there were instances of sticking, and my drive speed was 30-40mph.
Whatever is causing it is random and continues to happen whenever driven...
No one answered my question about fluid type..I assume this means using standard power steering fluid is fine.
I appreciate the help and any other ideas, thoughts on what I can look for to solve this.
1952 Fleetwood

J. Gomez

Peter,

The recommended P/S fluid is ATF, Type A was the GM recommendation for the P/S although in today’s time Type A is not available at your local auto part (maybe available from specialize shops e.g. hydraulic or independent oil companies) the equivalent would be Dexron III or VI.

Another item(s) to check in your sticking problem would the idler arm as well as the steering link; these would require lubrication as well as proper adjustment. You would need to check your Service Manual for the inspection, adjustment and lubrication of these items.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Dave Shepherd

So have you checked for any mechanical binding as suggested?  What you are asking in this thread is very difficult for anyone to accurately give advice from  a desk.  This would normally require a  knowledgeable tech to go through the proper procedures to try and pin this down. In my shop we start with the basics, then proceed in a  comprehensive  step by step diagnosis.

papas52cad

Thank you again
So would you think using the power steering fluid could have this affect on steering?
If I were to use dextron, I can certainly take the ps fluid out of tank..but I assume some remains within system..any issue there? Or do I have to do let the 2 fluids mix and then remove Nd replace again.
I am heading to syracuse Nationals today. Hoping for as smooth a ride as possible.
I’ll get it to the shop to check mechanicals next week.
1952 Fleetwood

J. Gomez

Peter,

P/S and ATF fluids are about the same hydraulic fluids with the some added modifiers on the ATF that are required for transmissions which are not present on the P/S fluids.

You could just drain what is the reservoir and leave what is left in the P/S gear and refill it with ATF, should be no problem (hope you have the red P/S fluid), the two would eventually mix together.

Draining the system would require a bit more work and then follow the process to refill and bleed the system. 

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

35-709

Using standard power steering is also fine.  Doesn't have to be ATF.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

papas52cad

Hello
Here is an update..
Before leaving for my 180 mile trek, I decided to check ps level..I found it down 1/8”, is I topped it off. I also thought I would bleed it again, just to be safe.
Finally when I secured the tank top I tightened it a little more as i was concerned that overtightening would cause a leak..which pho was what happened when I checked the ps when I bought the car, well that led to a ps leak and new tank gaskets.
DUI g my trip, there was way less sticking of steering. Not gone but maybe 70 % better. Not completely gone but I was much happier. During the last 10-20 miles at 65mph I felt it a little more. We stopped a few times and during local driving, no issue.
FYI the ps fluid I am using is from advanced auto and is NOT red.
On Sunday during drive home, I will know if the improvement continues.
Does this info help the ps experts on what might be going on?
Also just how tight should the tank top be...torque?
Thank you again for your comments and thought.
Given this any reason to go to ATF?
Peter
1952 Fleetwood

Jon S

Glad it is getting better. I remember back in the 1950's Marvel made a PS stop leak/conditioner that was very popular. I think the conditioner was more for keeping the seals pliable, but not sure. If it were my car, I would suck out as much fluid as I could and replace it with new Type A fluid which is still available. If this helps, resuck out the mixed fluid and replace again.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

When you start the car and let it idle does the fluid get hot quickly.... hotter than you would normally think it should with it just idling?
Reason I am asking is that it sounds like the pump is not working all the time which is why I originally asked about the belt. I am wondering if the pressure relief valve is sticking. I had a blockage in my line and the pump got super hot when just idling. If your valve is sticking it would cause the same issues.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

papas52cad

Thx Jon, Jeff
I will make note and check temp, another friend suggested possibly valves...
Seems like maybe going to ATF is way to go based on a few comments made here.
Where should I go to buy, at Napa Jon, ..is there a brand you can suggest?
I’ll know more on m ride home.
Hoping for the best and to try to reduce issue or better eliminate it completely
Thanaks again
Peter

BTW, the Syracuse Nationals is quite an event, 8000 cars, 80-100,000 visitors over 3 day. Gene Winfield, the famous car designer is here ( turned 91!!!) . With the Winfield special Six 2018. These “one off cars” ( 2 are Cadillacs) will compete for a $10,000 prize and Winfield trophy. And my 52 is exhibited right in the same building...very cool.


1952 Fleetwood

Jon S

I've had good luck with Valvoline products, but they all must meet specification. That "conditioner" I mentioned might have helped sticking valves which is a good possibility. Easiest to change the fluid first before any mechanical repairs.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT