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Restoring a 76 Eldorado Convertible

Started by Scarlett8, August 10, 2018, 05:47:58 PM

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Scarlett8

Hello! First time poster here, so forgive any errors, please.

A 76 Eldorado Convertible has been in my family for years (2 owners), and has only 12,000 miles on it. I have limited experience with classic cars (a 65 Mustang), and know little to nothing about restoring them (it was fully operational and repainted when I purchased it).

That being said, I would love to restore the Eldorado and get it in driving condition again. It's a great car with a lot of family memories for me, but as of now, it needs (as far as I can tell):

- new tires
- new battery
- replacement hood latches
- new paint job

The tires and battery are pretty straightforward, but I'm not sure about the hood latches or the paint job. I'm not sure why the hood latches were removed in the first place...according to my grandfather, a mechanic removed them and then couldn't find replacements. It's quite a chore to pop the hood without them. Any ideas on where to go about finding hood latches?

I'm also reluctant to let just any body shop repaint it, as I've heard horror stories about paint peeling a month or so after getting repainted, etc. Is there a specific paint that should be used on this car? Or any suggestions on places to get it repainted?

As aforementioned, I'm rather new to this, but happy to answer any questions and get any feedback. I love this car, and I can't wait to get it restored.

Thanks! ~Scarlett S.
~Scarlett Smith

BJM

A 12,000 original mile 76 Eldorado needs restored?  I am really confused.  Photos would help. 

Perhaps the hinges were stuck, requiring removal.  There are a lot of this era Eldorado out there. I would say 71-78 hinges would work, but I am not the expert some of these guys are. 


Scarlett8

Yes, that's the frustrating thing. My grandfather let it sit in storage for the last 15 years or so, and as you can see in the second picture, the tires have rotted out and deflated, rust and chips have gotten to the paint job, the hood latches are just flat out gone, and the battery is completely dead - the car won't start at all. There might be more underlying issues aside from the battery, but that's the first problem I've identified as far as under-the-hood problems go.

Thanks for the tip about the hood latches - I'll look into that!

~Scarlett S.
~Scarlett Smith

76eldo

Just clean the car first and then assess the condition of the paint.
It might be able to be touched up. Original paint is desirable.
Most likely the hood hinges were dry and bound up when the hood was opened at some point. The hood is a large and heavy piece and if the hinges stuck they will bend if you try to close the hood with force.

Get lots of advice here before you proceed.
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Scarlett8

Thank you! Good to know that it's not unusual to remove the hinges - I thought it was odd when he told me, but I guess not!

The paint is eroded on the hood because one of my cousins (argh - don't get me started) put some sort of drink or something on the hood that ate through the paint in a perfect circle on the hood. There are a few other similar marks eroded on the hood, and some paint chips along the sides. Nothing terribly major, but I just wasn't sure if the touch up job would cover the circle that's been made.

I think the first step that I've concluded from the responses and reading different posts on here is to clean the car up, replace the tires, battery and hood latches, and then start to look into paint touch ups?

Albeit, along the way I may find out that there are more interior problems than I thought, but so far everything except the battery and tires seem to be "cosmetic problems."

Thanks again for the replies and advice - I definitely need any tips I can get! :)
~Scarlett Smith

The Tassie Devil(le)

One of the problems with starting up any thing that has sat for so long is that all the initial lubrication will have somewhat drained away from the surfaces, and the starting process will, until the oil pressure has risen sufficiently to start lubricating again, there will be metal yo metal contact.

Things like the nylon teeth on the timing gear could be compromised just through age, even though it hasn't been used, but one thing going for the vehicle is that it does have some mileage on the parts, albeit that it hasn't been used for 15 years.

The only thing that i would be doing before starting up is to drain the oil, and refill, including a new filter, pull the distributor and manually rotate the oil pump drive, to build up pressure, turn the engine by hand at 1/4 turn increments, and continue rotating the oil pump till 2 complete rotations of the crankshaft have been accomplished, reinstall the distributor and "fire her up" after putting a gut-full of petrol into the carby to initially get her going.

Oh, and replacing the fuel in the tank and lined, plus have a squiz at the carby as well.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Scarlett8

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on August 10, 2018, 08:17:48 PM
The only thing that i would be doing before starting up is to drain the oil, and refill, including a new filter, pull the distributor and manually rotate the oil pump drive, to build up pressure, turn the engine by hand at 1/4 turn increments, and continue rotating the oil pump till 2 complete rotations of the crankshaft have been accomplished, reinstall the distributor and "fire her up" after putting a gut-full of petrol into the carby to initially get her going.

Oh, and replacing the fuel in the tank and lined, plus have a squiz at the carby as well.

Bruce. >:D

So, I'm admittedly not great with engines and such. Is the whole manually rotating the oil pump and turning the engine by hand something that's easy enough for me to do? Or would taking it to a mechanic (or having one come out to the house) be a better option? I'm assuming if a mechanic came out I could just show him what you said and he would know what to do.

Also, I found several Duralast batteries on AutoZone.com that say they're specifically for 76 Eldorados. Any experiences with one battery brand being better than another? Or is brand not a big factor to worry about?
~Scarlett Smith

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Scarlette,
Before we go any further... can you post a pic of where YOU think these hood latches??? are???
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

The Tassie Devil(le)

Quote from: Scarlett8 on August 10, 2018, 09:17:31 PM
So, I'm admittedly not great with engines and such. Is the whole manually rotating the oil pump and turning the engine by hand something that's easy enough for me to do? Or would taking it to a mechanic (or having one come out to the house) be a better option? I'm assuming if a mechanic came out I could just show him what you said and he would know what to do.

Also, I found several Duralast batteries on AutoZone.com that say they're specifically for 76 Eldorados. Any experiences with one battery brand being better than another? Or is brand not a big factor to worry about?
There is one specialised tool required which a normal mechanic would not have, and that is the tool required to spin the oil pump.   I made mine myself out of a piece of scrap steel, and it replicates the actual shape of the distributor shaft without the cam drive gear which I can spin the oil pump on its' own.

This is the trouble with new mechanics working on older stuff.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

bcroe

When I get a car like that, it gets new brake hoses and calipers, a
new timing chain, and a new $30 set of "soft" transmission internal
seals.  Probably some of these would fail if the car is driven again,
possibly with catastrophic results.  Bruce Roe

Scarlett8

Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on August 10, 2018, 10:19:22 PM
Scarlette,
Before we go any further... can you post a pic of where YOU think these hood latches??? are???
Bob

Okay so after looking, what I've been calling hood latches are actually hood HINGES (my bad ;D) It's super difficult to hold the hood up while someone's trying to look under it, so I definitely need those replaced. Now that I have the correct terminology, I found that there are lots and lots of hinges online for under $200. Thank you for asking me to go look - otherwise I never would've figured that one out!

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on August 10, 2018, 10:56:43 PM
There is one specialised tool required which a normal mechanic would not have, and that is the tool required to spin the oil pump.   I made mine myself out of a piece of scrap steel, and it replicates the actual shape of the distributor shaft without the cam drive gear which I can spin the oil pump on its' own.

This is the trouble with new mechanics working on older stuff.

Bruce. >:D

Wow - how cool that you made yours yourself! We're in the Dallas area and I was looking at Smitty's Classics and Cars - do you think it would go better overall if I took it to a mechanic shop specifically for classic cars?

Quote from: bcroe on August 10, 2018, 11:44:40 PM
When I get a car like that, it gets new brake hoses and calipers, a
new timing chain, and a new $30 set of "soft" transmission internal
seals.  Probably some of these would fail if the car is driven again,
possibly with catastrophic results.  Bruce Roe

Thank you for the advice! I'm making a list now of everything that everyone's advising to have repaired/replaced!! Can't thank you all enough! :)
~Scarlett Smith

35-709

As to your hood hinges ---

http://www.sms-auto.com/

Have them repair or rebuild your hinges as (or if) necessary (the hinge pins and holes wear) and have them put new springs on, you will then replace them on the car as an assembly.  When you remove the hinges make note of how many shims (if any) are under each bolt hole and which bolt hole and when you get to the hinge adjustment there is help here for that too.

May I also strongly suggest that you get the '76 Cadillac Shop Manual, available on eBay and cheap at twice the price --- no matter what you pay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1976-CADILLAC-SHOP-MANUAL-ORIGINAL-VINTAGE-2-INCHES-THICK-ALL-YOU-NEED/292642087536?hash=item4422d3e270%3Ag%3ALOcAAOSwDMNbIxK7&_sacat=6000&_nkw=1976+Cadillac+Shop+Manual&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.X1976+Cadillac+Shop+Manual.TRS0

You will also find this manual to handy from time to time ---

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1976-Cadillac-Body-Shop-Manual-Deville-Eldorado-Calais-Fleetwood-Brougham-Repair/400885845858?hash=item5d56a88f6
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Bobby B

Scarlett,
  WOW! Congratulations....That Eldo looks like a real gem that only needs what I call the "Once Over". When I find something like that I usually make a list of the things that are out of the ordinary, but First I'll attend to the necessities before sinking too much into it. First order is getting it running, second order is getting it roadworthy and shakedown, and finally Cosmetics at your convenience. Hoses, Belts, Fluids (Oil, Trans, Coolant, Brake, PS, etc.), Wires, Plugs, ignition, etc. Then I would asses all hard brake lines, and definitely change all the rubber brake hoses, flush, followed with calipers, rotors, pads, etc. Usually costs about 1-2K to get a car like that up, running, and roadworthy. Good Luck and keep us posted!
                                                                                  Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

cadillacmike68

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on August 10, 2018, 08:17:48 PM
One of the problems with starting up any thing that has sat for so long is that all the initial lubrication will have somewhat drained away from the surfaces, and the starting process will, until the oil pressure has risen sufficiently to start lubricating again, there will be metal yo metal contact.

Things like the nylon teeth on the timing gear could be compromised just through age, even though it hasn't been used, but one thing going for the vehicle is that it does have some mileage on the parts, albeit that it hasn't been used for 15 years.

The only thing that i would be doing before starting up is to drain the oil, and refill, including a new filter, pull the distributor and manually rotate the oil pump drive, to build up pressure, turn the engine by hand at 1/4 turn increments, and continue rotating the oil pump till 2 complete rotations of the crankshaft have been accomplished, reinstall the distributor and "fire her up" after putting a gut-full of petrol into the carby to initially get her going.

Oh, and replacing the fuel in the tank and lined, plus have a squiz at the carby as well.

Bruce. >:D

Why can't he just put a tablespoon of oil into each cylinder after the oil / filter change and key bump it a few revolutions? Won't that serve the same function?
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Bobby B

Quote from: cadillacmike68 on August 11, 2018, 04:17:30 PM
Why can't he just put a tablespoon of oil into each cylinder after the oil / filter change and key bump it a few revolutions? Won't that serve the same function?

Agreed. I wouldn't be pulling a distributor on an engine that was put away running just to get/check oil pressure, but I would install a manual gauge to check it whilst cranking over with the coil, and/or wires pulled and the plugs out (if it were easy enough) to reduce compression and battery strain until you're satisfied with the oil pressure reading. Having someone pull the distributor on any car that they're not familiar with is not a great idea. I only do that on fresh rebuilds before I toss the engine back in to make sure all is OK, BEFORE the distributor is in. Just seems like a lot of extra work just to check pressure to avoid a mini-catastrophe......Just my 2 cents  ::)......
                                                                                                 Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Scot Minesinger

I agree with Bruce, pull the distributor to spin the oil pump with a drill, then replace exactly as it was.  Granted, it may be frozen and not able to removed.

On the big picture side of things, if you are not real good with engines, you may have to hire much of this work out.  A restoration of a car like this due to complicated systems (as opposed to the 1965 Mustang) can be very pricey.  The cost of restoration is only limited by your imagination, and you could easily drop 100k into it.  A perfect example of the same car that looks like it had 100k invested might cost 30k.  Decide if you want to put that much money into it first, or develop a budget.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

The Tassie Devil(le)

Quote from: cadillacmike68 on August 11, 2018, 04:17:30 PM
Why can't he just put a tablespoon of oil into each cylinder after the oil / filter change and key bump it a few revolutions?
Won't that serve the same function? 
In a word, no.   All this does is lubricate the Compression Rings, creating a good compression seal, and a lot of smoke upon start-up.   But, nothing wrong with doing it, as I would also have done it myself, simply to act as a cylinder lubricant which will slowly wipe down to the oil rings.   Sometimes a dry cylinder wall is good to let the compression rings "scrape" away any rust that might have gathered.

Rotating the engine at the intervals I mentioned is designed to fill every orifice with fresh oil, and the orifices  I am referring to are the Hydraulic Lifters.

These only receive their oil at certain positions as they move up and down, and filling these will bring them back to their correct operating height so that when the engine is started, there will be no collapsed lifters, creating a lot of rattling until they fill up.   Turning the engine in the small amounts allows the lifters to receive oil when they are not under as much valve spring pressure as the corresponding valve is closed.

Then there are the connecting rod bearings and other bearing surfaces.   Oil will be fully transferred to all the surfaces as the crank is turned, and not just to the part with the most clearance gap.

Rotating the Oil Pump initially primes everything as after an engine has sat for a long time, the oil will have drained completely from the pump gears, and initial cavitation, until the pump gears begin getting oil, will mean that the internals of the engine will be rubbing metal to metal, as in NO Lubrication. 

Another reason for doing two full rotations of the crankshaft is to bring it back to the same position from whence the distributor was pulled.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   Each mechanic has their own way of doing things, but not many have to do what we do with older stuff.   Not sure how they train mechanics now, but the modern mechanic might know a lot about electronics, but how many would have ever done a de-coke and valve grind?
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

bcroe

Not caring to get into problems pulling the HEI, I pull up another car filled with clean
oil, and connect my 6 foot high pressure (trans pressure gauge) hose between the
oil pressure ports of the 2 engines.  I start up the other car for maybe 20 seconds
and let it pressurize the stored car oil passages.  I check the just run engine oil
level, perhaps run it enough to transfer over a quart of oil.  Then with the plugs out
I crank the recently stored engine, till I see the quart of oil is transferred back. 

Bruce Roe