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confused on the pump to carb fuel line and fuel inlet for my 68 with the 472.

Started by chicago1, August 29, 2018, 04:04:03 PM

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chicago1

Hey guys this is a 2 part.

1st:I started smelling raw fuel and I found fuel spraying out of the fuel inlet fitting that goes to the carb. I tried to tighten it down and seems like the fitting is to small and has play, I can actually wiggle it in the threads as I tighten it. If i try to tighten it down it doesn't fully grab and will just slip off like it's stripped when fully seated . I looked at the threads on the fitting itself and they don't seem stripped. I haven't looked inside the carb side where thefitting goes to see if those threads are jacked but like I said the fitting itself seems to small. I read a thread that you can buy this fitting and it's common but I haven't found a store that carries them. I can't find the link now. So which fitting do I need? The fitting is the gold one  I'm sure you already knew that
on this carb which btw I am using for an example it's not mine.

2nd: I need a new carb to fuel line and seen 1 place on ebay that has it for 20 shipped pre bent but it looks nothing like what I have on my car.  I called some shops in town and they want 60-80 bucks to basically reform my old line with a new one. Seems steep but I want to know if i have the correct line on mine. Here is my line it's a 2 piece..and here is the one from ebay and another place that says has them. Your help is appreciated.



 

T J Lankes

You could try this company at the link below for the fuel line. They may have the fitting that threads into the carb as well.

  http://www.classictube.com/catalogsearch/advanced/result/?name=&description=&short_description=&sku=&price%5Bfrom%5D=&price%5Bto%5D=&year=1968&make=Cadillac&v_model=DeVille&cab=&ton=&duty=&drive=&box=&engine=&ymm_cat=Carburetor%20Fuel%20Line

If the threads in the carb body are stripped, the carb can be sent out to have a heli-coil inserted to correct the problem. 

Two well regarded carb rebuilders are:

https://cliffshighperformance.com/

and

Chris' Carb Shop (Dayton OH)
937-890-0970


chicago1

Thank I will look into the carb place. As far as the link with the fuel line. it looks like it's the same line as the one pictured and the others I have inquired about. I don't know why mine would be different unless that end piece would make up for that u shape on the end of the one I have? What do you think looking at the pic?

savemy67

Hello Shant,

It looks like the fuel inlet of your carburetor has been replaced and the fitting on the original (or original style fuel line) is too small for the fitting that is in the carb.  The reason for my suspicion is that the six flats on the fuel inlet should be right next to the body of the carb, holding a gasket in place (see the photo below of my carb).

It is not unusual for Q-jet fuel inlets to be stripped out from overtightening.  If they get replaced, a rebuilder may not pay attention to the correct size female NPT threads into which the original flare nut threads.  You should be able to go to any hardware/box/Fastenal store and get the appropriate threaded NPT bushings in brass or steel.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

chicago1

I ended up buying the line just to see if maybe the one I have currently on the car is  NOT the correct one. Does anyone have that extra piece I have shown in the picture the one about 6" long on their car? Could you verify for me please if it's on your car.


chicago1

Quote from: savemy67 on August 29, 2018, 07:44:56 PM
Hello Shant,

It looks like the fuel inlet of your carburetor has been replaced and the fitting on the original (or original style fuel line) is too small for the fitting that is in the carb.  The reason for my suspicion is that the six flats on the fuel inlet should be right next to the body of the carb, holding a gasket in place (see the photo below of my carb).

It is not unusual for Q-jet fuel inlets to be stripped out from overtightening.  If they get replaced, a rebuilder may not pay attention to the correct size female NPT threads into which the original flare nut threads.  You should be able to go to any hardware/box/Fastenal store and get the appropriate threaded NPT bushings in brass or steel.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

Christopher, the photo that I showed is just an example I thought I had put that in there but I see that I didn't so let me correct that. I apologize for the confusion. We have a Fastenal store here in town. So your saying get one in a larger size correct? Will they have them with the 5/16"  gas line female on the other side to feed through? Excuse my ignorance on carb stuff this is all new to me.

savemy67

Hello Shant,

On second thought, you may be better off removing the fuel inlet fitting from the carb, and taking it and the fuel line to a store that deals in fittings.  There is probably one in the Chicago area (assuming by your forum handle that you live in the Chicago area).  Fastenal usually does not carry tubing in its stores, and the store near you may or may not have flare and compression fittings in the store.

From what I can see in the photos you posted, the long section of the fuel line connects with the short section of the fuel with a compression union.  I suspect that this is not original, but it looks like it is all there.  You should only have to take the short section of fuel line, and the inlet fitting from the carb, to a store.  The fitting on the end of the short section of fuel line is a flare nut, and I think the tubing size is 5/16".  Hope this helps.

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

Delo427

The line on your car is not the original, the one in the picture that you ordered is correct, and yes it needs that u shape. I made a new one for my car last year, $20 is a bargain, I should have just ordered it! As far as the fitting goes, there is a chance whoever put that compression fitting on with the new end used a metric line instead.

chicago1

Thanks Christopher so I have that new line coming so that solves that part so thank you for verifying that it's not the original/correct one. that was throwing me off because all the ones I seen online to buy did not look like the one I had on the car .I just assumed it was but as I continue to go through the car I find many many things that are very disappointing but I'm going to make it right.

As far as the fitting that goes in the inlet it is a 7/8".It does not look it's chewed up. The threads in the inlet themselves do look chewed up. I do have a few options from what I have researched so my options are to take it to a carburetor place here in town that supposably deals with these types of situations. Or I can buy a self tapping fitting which is a larger size that I can get from a place that sells parts for my card.  I'm going to take it to and see what options I have as far as either Helicoil or tapping it with a larger self-tapping fitting which they do sell for this carb. And the other option is to take it to a machine shop and have them Helicoil it but I assume that's what the shop in town may do. Or I could buy another one or I can buy an aftermarket one. Here are some pictures of the fitting itself and then pictures of the inlet I use the borescope and a camera. I actually I live in Rio Rancho New Mexico I used to live in Chicago but moved here for my job

35-709

I would keep that carb and get it repaired, those carbs were specific as to year and make of car and I am assuming here that the carb you have is original to the car.  You can't buy them new and any replacement you might buy is an unknown as to application (and past life) unless you can positively identify the replacement by the number stamped on the side. 
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

chicago1

Just an update I am half way fixed.  I had help from  Dr. John T. Welch he sent me a pm. So I ended up getting a fitting from Napa and it has the extended threads and is self tapping at the end. it was like 8 bucks and it seals nice and tight on the inlet side of the carb and is not loose. I also used a paste instead of Teflon as he suggested so that is done thanks for all the help.

the second part I got my new fuel line in and it's not long enough and the end doesn't have that hook to fit the fuel pump. now I know the one I took off the car is not the oem one as Delo427 said but there is no way it is even close to fitting. Does anyone have a picture of theirs?

Here is what came off and here is what I got. I need another foot or so to even reach. I'm either going to cut the new one and use some of the old and add a inline filter with fuel hose. or send what I have in now and have them remake it. Why is this one so short and how is it the correct one because it's not close to fitting?





chicago1

Also can anyone tell me does the line connect to something else or it goes straight to the pump? Is it supposed to go to the filter or something? Could really use a pic of what the stock line looks like.

chicago1

 >:( I finally found the issue that line that came off my car is for a 1971-76 Cadillac Fuel Pump To Carburetor Line (500 4-BBL DeVille) See how it looks like my old line? For whatever reason there was another 4-6" straight piece that goes into the carb which they added another fitting. maybe they bent that piece and just added that extra.. Anyways that't it. At the time I had not noticed until Dr. John T. Welch asked me about the fuel filter So I started looking at diagrams because I can't check the car until later today or tonight So I haven't really noticed but the new line I got goes to the fuel filter and the filter then routes to the pump according to this picture below I guess..(I'm still waiting on my manual) so what was throwing me off was the name "fuel pump to carb line" I didn't know there was supposed to be a filter. They have a aftermarket a/c unit so maybe they eliminated it because they couldn't find the filter since i read they are hard to come by? I will check tonight and see if there is a filter tucked where it's supposed to be. So either they put a different fuel pump and filter or just bypassed the filter and plugged it up and used this line to the pump.

https://www.opgi.com/cadillac/CE07855/





savemy67

Hello Shant,

Glad you got things sorted.  Your case is a good example of how useful a shop manual can be whether or not you choose to do your own work.

Since you found one item that was changed by a previous owner, do not be surprised that there may be others.  A lot can happen to a car over the course of 50 years.

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

chicago1

Yup it was them eliminating the filter and using a different year line.  I have to acknowledge Dr. John T. Welch again he is the one that asked me" Are you sure some previous owner or mechanic did not eliminate a fuel filter or other component from the OEM configuration? Well since I ASSUMED all was correct I didn't notice it didn't have a filter because I was stuck on the fuel pump to carb line" So I didn't realize it should be carb to fuel filter line.. I decided to look up the engine diagram and I went home on my break and sure enough no damn filter. They bypassed it with a 71+ Eldorado line . Looking at the pump one of the fittings has a piece of rubber hose with a screw plugging it up lol. I should take pics of all the ghettoness of this car so you can truly appreciate the horrendous work they did. Oh well it will all get fixed little by little. 


I do have a/c on my car but it is a "aftermarket unit" It doesn't work and that wiring is bad I don't plan on using the a/c anytime soon since that's the least of my worries. I think I will go ahead and by the non a/c fuel filter. 

chicago1

Btw where do I get a non a/c unit fuel filter? i thought the a/c ones where the hard ones to find but I am not seeing anything when I search for "68 deville non a/c fuel pump filter" or any combination of those words.

cadillacmike68

I came on this thread late.

The in-line tube photo early on is the correct line set for the 68s and it fit my 68 perfectly.

As for the fuel pump, just search for 68 Cadillac fuel pump. don't put in AC or non-AC and see what comes up. I think the pump is the same for all 68s, the Filter is different for Climate Control equipped cars.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

chicago1

Quote from: cadillacmike68 on September 04, 2018, 11:43:17 PM
I came on this thread late.

The in-line tube photo early on is the correct line set for the 68s and it fit my 68 perfectly.

As for the fuel pump, just search for 68 Cadillac fuel pump. don't put in AC or non-AC and see what comes up. I think the pump is the same for all 68s, the Filter is different for Climate Control equipped cars.

yeah they put a 69+ fuel pump because the filter is inside and they used a 71+ line. For now it's not leaking and working I'll deal with putting the oem configuration on later down the road. Now on to the column which is a wreck. 

cadillacmike68

Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike