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1974 Fleetwood AC

Started by ithaca1230, September 04, 2018, 09:38:49 AM

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ithaca1230

Well I had the AC compressor replaced and a VIR eliminator kit installed from Old Air Products about 3 weeks ago. The system had been flushed and charged with 134. It has been working great until a week ago I drove it and AC just stopped working The fan and everything stopped.. Acted like a fuse blew. I checked the fuses and all were good. Fired it up and AC works. last time I drove it ac works then after a while would shut off and then start back up. It kept doing that all the way home. Not sure where to start looking. The shop had it for a day but it never shut off on them. Any thoughts where to start looking.

Thanks

Billy

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Billy,
I obviously cannot say for sure because first of all I do not how the system was "re-wired" to incorporate the compressor cut-off tied to the "VIR eliminator", but IF they used a pressure or temperature switch you might just check that to see if it is set correctly and if the components are correctly installed .  In the case of the temperature switch it would be bulb location and attachment.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

ithaca1230

Quote from: "Cadillac Kid"  Greg Surfas 15364 on September 04, 2018, 11:04:32 AM
Billy,
I obviously cannot say for sure because first of all I do not how the system was "re-wired" to incorporate the compressor cut-off tied to the "VIR eliminator", but IF they used a pressure or temperature switch you might just check that to see if it is set correctly and if the components are correctly installed .  In the case of the temperature switch it would be bulb location and attachment.
Greg Surfas

Greg,

Thank-you Im not sure how it was rewired. I will have to dig into it and let you know.

Thanks again

Billy

35-709

The VIR Eliminator kit comes with full instructions including how to adjust the cycling switch.  Make sure your installer adjusted that switch as per the instructions!  Hope you, or at least your installer, kept those instructions.  I would certainly save them (glove box?) for future use, or future owner.  The system has now been changed and the shop manual won't have anything about it. 
When adjusted properly, the compressor will cycle on and off as opposed to running full time (when the system is on) as before.  You may well notice the cycling in how the engine reacts to the cycling on and off of the compressor, that A6 takes some grunt to operate.  You will also notice that when the compressor cycles off the air out of the vents may become noticeably warmer until the compressor cycles on again.  This is the way the system will now work to prevent the evaporator from freezing up.  It is most definitely not as seamless as with the stock Cadillac system or as with a more modern cycling compressor system and you may not like it. 
You pays your money and takes your choice.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

35-709

As for the fan stopping completely "like a fuse blew" --- that sounds like an entirely different problem.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

ithaca1230

Quote from: 35-709 on September 04, 2018, 12:19:51 PM
The VIR Eliminator kit comes with full instructions including how to adjust the cycling switch.  Make sure your installer adjusted that switch as per the instructions!  Hope you, or at least your installer, kept those instructions.  I would certainly save them (glove box?) for future use, or future owner.  The system has now been changed and the shop manual won't have anything about it. 
When adjusted properly, the compressor will cycle on and off as opposed to running full time (when the system is on) as before.  You may well notice the cycling in how the engine reacts to the cycling on and off of the compressor, that A6 takes some grunt to operate.  You will also notice that when the compressor cycles off the air out of the vents may become noticeably warmer until the compressor cycles on again.  This is the way the system will now work to prevent the evaporator from freezing up.  It is most definitely not as seamless as with the stock Cadillac system or as with a more modern cycling compressor system and you may not like it. 
You pays your money and takes your choice.

The Compressor does cycle on and off as you described. Just that the whole system shuts off after a while. I just called the installer and they are gonna let me know if they have the instructions then I'll double check everything. The AC works just fine when its working.

Thanks

Billy

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Billy,
If the system worked correctly before they did the work there should be some warrantee  covering its continued operation.  That said, There should be some warrantee that they provided a working system.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

ithaca1230

Quote from: "Cadillac Kid"  Greg Surfas 15364 on September 04, 2018, 02:26:26 PM
Billy,
If the system worked correctly before they did the work there should be some warrantee  covering its continued operation.  That said, There should be some warrantee that they provided a working system.
Greg Surfas
These guys are reputable and have always been great to work with. I just want to get all ducks in a row before I bring it back to them.

Thanks
Billy

cadillactim

If the whole system just shut off, check electrical connections at blower relays and when it shuts off again put lever in DEFROST. If system starts back up in Defrost, may be in car switch in dash control (and heater turn on switch).

Tim
Tim Groves

35-709

"I just called the installer and they are gonna let me know if they have the instructions then I'll double check everything."

The instructions are also available as a PDF file on the internet, so if they don't have them it is not the end of the world.

www.originalair.com/downloads/instructions/15-211.pdf 

The procedure for adjusting the cycling switch is on the last page.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

ithaca1230

Quote from: 35-709 on September 04, 2018, 07:15:23 PM
"I just called the installer and they are gonna let me know if they have the instructions then I'll double check everything."

The instructions are also available as a PDF file on the internet, so if they don't have them it is not the end of the world.

www.originalair.com/downloads/instructions/15-211.pdf 

The procedure for adjusting the cycling switch is on the last page.

Thank-you!!

TJ Hopland

Are we dealing with Original Air or Old Air?   I don't remember the Old Air kits coming with an adjustable switch. 

Does a 74 system shut down if it looses vacuum?    I had a 78 that would not run the blower for heat till the engine compartment got good and warm.  Turned out the cracks in the vacuum hoses would only self seal if they were warm enough to have a little flex in em.  I found it because the parking brake release didn't work either when it was really cold.   



StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

ithaca1230

Quote from: TJ Hopland on September 05, 2018, 10:10:29 AM
Are we dealing with Original Air or Old Air?   I don't remember the Old Air kits coming with an adjustable switch. 

Does a 74 system shut down if it looses vacuum?    I had a 78 that would not run the blower for heat till the engine compartment got good and warm.  Turned out the cracks in the vacuum hoses would only self seal if they were warm enough to have a little flex in em.  I found it because the parking brake release didn't work either when it was really cold.   

It is a Old Air kit. I spoke with them and they want the installer to contact them directly and they will help troubleshoot it. The switch is adjustable but they said not to readjust it till other stuff was checked. Ill let you all know what we came up with.

Thanks
Billy

35-709

I believe all of those POA and VIR eliminator kits are made by the same company (in China?) and the aftermarket air conditioning specialists sell them, possibly under their own label but they're all the same.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

TJ Hopland

There are at least 2 different kits out of the dozen or so vendors.   One of them the receiver looks like the 80's OE ones where one of the tubes comes off the bottom.   The other style the line to the bottom is internal and goes into the top.   The other connection is on a swivel so it can be oriented where ever needed. 

Old Air:


Original Air:
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

TJ,
First of all a 78 would not turn the fan on until the motor as sensed by the sensor in the right side cylinder head told the electrical circuit that the coolant was warm enough.
Secondly there are two basic types of control for those devices intended to replace either the POA or the VIRs.
One type depends upon suction pressure and those seem to be the two pictured in your post.  When the suction pressure reaches the set point the circuit is broken and the compressor cuts off.
The second type is a temperature sensing thermostat that is typically inserted in front tf the evaporator coil.  When the temperature is lowered to the set point, it too cuts off the compressor.
Neither one of these types effectively operates the system in conjunction with the factory temperature controls, since the factory systems intended for the compressor to operate full time to ensure constant dehumidification and provides re-heat as required to maintain desired temperature.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Scot Minesinger

The original system works fine with the VIR and 134.  Hind sight is 20/20, but to save the trouble of this type of aggravation, I would simply put it back the way it was.  I have repaired a dozen Cadillac climate controls with VIR going back now ten years and they all still work.

Not helpful to your immediate situation, I know.  Seems that the pressure switch is stopping your system incorrectly.

Yes take it back to the shop, and insist on a wiring diagram of how it was changed, so if ever you can put it back or other shops can better understand.  I'm not a big originality guy, but this is one appeal of of keeping original.  Anyone working on an original car can use the shop manual and know what to expect.  Mechanically, I try and stay original to the extent possible, especially if it is a good design, just so others can work on the car later.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

ithaca1230

I will be bringing it back in a week for them to troubleshoot it. The people from Old Air were really good about trying to help with this issue. They tried to explain to me and after a few minutes it was obviouse that the need to be talking to the installer. They offered to go over everything with the mechanic when they have the car. I wish you guys were close by and could have helped me but I feel confident that it will get figured out.

Thanks again

Billy